Pop Culture Timelines Go-To Thread

[Tacomaster]

I was particularly amused by the Road Runner being designated as a "primary star" (let's be honest, everyone knows who the actual main character of the Road Runner and Coyote shorts was).

Well, they didn’t air The Wile E. Coyote Show on CBS…

 

[ArcticAurora2002]

Well, they didn’t air The Wile E. Coyote Show on CBS…

Touché.

 

[Tacomaster]

A Golden Age cartoon TL- where the success of the Superman shorts leads to more superhero shorts throughout the 40s.

• Columbia starts making Batman cartoons in 1943 in place of OTL’s serials, and once Paramount lets the rights to Superman go, guess who snatches them up like OTL (but even earlier). The Batman and Superman cartoons are staples for Screen Gems, and are even among the early shorts produced by UPA.
• Paramount/Famous Studios, meanwhile, picks up the rights to The Phantom to fill that super-shaped, super-sized hole, taking advantage of their relationship with King Features and The Phantom’s lower price tag. Speaking of King Features…
• Universal/Lantz puts their toe in with Flash Gordon, continuing from the old serials.
• Terrytoons pokes fun at the costumed heroes with Mighty Mouse, as does Disney with an earlier Darkwing Duck and the Goofy cartoon “How to Be a Superhero”.
• MGM picks up Captain America, proving especially valuable for WWII propaganda. Afterwards, MGM continues to use the character for anti-commie propaganda, and for general entertainment shorts, picks up the Sub-Mariner and the Human Torch.
• Warner Bros, while considering Bob Clampett’s John Carter of Mars pitch, decides to license out Captain Marvel instead, as a series separate from Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies.

All of these series, even Superman and Batman, have ended by 1950, as superheroes in general saw a downturn in popularity during that time.

 

[TheFaultsofAlts]

A Golden Age cartoon TL- where the success of the Superman shorts leads to more superhero shorts throughout the 40s.

• Columbia starts making Batman cartoons in 1943 in place of OTL’s serials, and once Paramount lets the rights to Superman go, guess who snatches them up like OTL (but even earlier). The Batman and Superman cartoons are staples for Screen Gems, and are even among the early shorts produced by UPA.

Well, it's something notable at Screen Gems.

• Paramount/Famous Studios, meanwhile, picks up the rights to The Phantom to fill that super-shaped, super-sized hole, taking advantage of their relationship with King Features and The Phantom’s lower price tag. Speaking of King Features…

Works for me.

• Universal/Lantz puts their toe in with Flash Gordon, continuing from the old serials.

Something other than slapstick? Blasphemy!

• Terrytoons pokes fun at the costumed heroes with Mighty Mouse, as does Disney with an earlier Darkwing Duck and the Goofy cartoon “How to Be a Superhero”.

Mighty Mouse could be more successful, but Darkwing Duck and potentially Super Goof in the 50s? Now we're talking!

• MGM picks up Captain America, proving especially valuable for WWII propaganda. Afterwards, MGM continues to use the character for anti-commie propaganda, and for general entertainment shorts, picks up the Sub-Mariner and the Human Torch.

Something tells me Stan Lee and Steve Ditko might catch wind of the Tom and Jerry guys while this is going on.

• Warner Bros, while considering Bob Clampett’s John Carter of Mars pitch, decides to license out Captain Marvel instead, as a series separate from Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies.

A series of Shazam shorts by Warner Bros. Count me in!

All of these series, even Superman and Batman, have ended by 1950, as superheroes in general saw a downturn in popularity during that time.

I can live with that. Just as long as Darkwing Duck has a hefty life in comic books.

 

[Ninja2006]

A Golden Age cartoon TL- where the success of the Superman shorts leads to more superhero shorts throughout the 40s.

• Columbia starts making Batman cartoons in 1943 in place of OTL’s serials, and once Paramount lets the rights to Superman go, guess who snatches them up like OTL (but even earlier). The Batman and Superman cartoons are staples for Screen Gems, and are even among the early shorts produced by UPA.
• Paramount/Famous Studios, meanwhile, picks up the rights to The Phantom to fill that super-shaped, super-sized hole, taking advantage of their relationship with King Features and The Phantom’s lower price tag. Speaking of King Features…
• Universal/Lantz puts their toe in with Flash Gordon, continuing from the old serials.
• Terrytoons pokes fun at the costumed heroes with Mighty Mouse, as does Disney with an earlier Darkwing Duck and the Goofy cartoon “How to Be a Superhero”.
• MGM picks up Captain America, proving especially valuable for WWII propaganda. Afterwards, MGM continues to use the character for anti-commie propaganda, and for general entertainment shorts, picks up the Sub-Mariner and the Human Torch.
• Warner Bros, while considering Bob Clampett’s John Carter of Mars pitch, decides to license out Captain Marvel instead, as a series separate from Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies.

All of these series, even Superman and Batman, have ended by 1950, as superheroes in general saw a downturn in popularity during that time.

Well, it's something notable at Screen Gems.

Works for me.

Something other than slapstick? Blasphemy!

Mighty Mouse could be more successful, but Darkwing Duck and potentially Super Goof in the 50s? Now we're talking!

Something tells me Stan Lee and Steve Ditko might catch wind of the Tom and Jerry guys while this is going on.

A series of Shazam shorts by Warner Bros. Count me in!

I can live with that. Just as long as Darkwing Duck has a hefty life in comic books.

These are great ideas!

 

[Tacomaster]

Another idea: What if Tex Avery working on Paramount’s “Speaking with Animals” series resulted in Paramount hiring Tex to work on cartoons, with Paramount’s Miami-based Famous Studios on the east coast and Avery’s on the west?

• Pretty much all of Avery’s shorts at MGM would instead be done for Paramount. This includes Droopy and Screwy Squirrel and the Wolf and all the characters he created. Meanwhile, Famous Studios goes on as usual, making Popeye and Casper shorts and the like. There might be some crossover as well- Famous could take over Screwy when Avery throws him out, while Avery might get into making some Popeye cartoons.
• When Clampett makes the Time for Beany puppet show on the PARAMOUNT Television Network in 1948, Avery convinces him to join the animation studio as well.
• Paramount’s continued success with animation, combined with Clampett getting them in TV earlier, results in them not selling off their cartoons to U.M.&M., AAP, or Harvey Comics. Instead, when TV comes along and tries to steal their market share, they try to enter TV animation earlier.
• Enter Bill Scott. After he had written for Time for Beany, he would team up with Jay Ward for Rocky and Bullwinkle, resulting in it and other Jay Ward cartoons being made under Paramount. Their other TV outsourcing jobs, like Felix and TV Popeye, also occur, though they might have more ownership.
• Since IOTL Paramount worked on the Thor cartoon and were offered work on Spider-Man, ITTL they still work on Thor AND other Marvel cartoons, including Spidey. Maybe they even buy Marvel outright after WB and DC fall under the same corporate umbrella, and after Paramount’s success with Marvel.

 

[THE KINGFISH]

Another idea: What if Tex Avery working on Paramount’s “Speaking with Animals” series resulted in Paramount hiring Tex to work on cartoons, with Paramount’s Miami-based Famous Studios on the east coast and Avery’s on the west?

• Pretty much all of Avery’s shorts at MGM would instead be done for Paramount. This includes Droopy and Screwy Squirrel and the Wolf and all the characters he created. Meanwhile, Famous Studios goes on as usual, making Popeye and Casper shorts and the like. There might be some crossover as well- Famous could take over Screwy when Avery throws him out, while Avery might get into making some Popeye cartoons.
• When Clampett makes the Time for Beany puppet show on the PARAMOUNT Television Network in 1948, Avery convinces him to join the animation studio as well.
• Paramount’s continued success with animation, combined with Clampett getting them in TV earlier, results in them not selling off their cartoons to U.M.&M., AAP, or Harvey Comics. Instead, when TV comes along and tries to steal their market share, they try to enter TV animation earlier.
• Enter Bill Scott. After he had written for Time for Beany, he would team up with Jay Ward for Rocky and Bullwinkle, resulting in it and other Jay Ward cartoons being made under Paramount. Their other TV outsourcing jobs, like Felix and TV Popeye, also occur, though they might have more ownership.
• Since IOTL Paramount worked on the Thor cartoon and were offered work on Spider-Man, ITTL they still work on Thor AND other Marvel cartoons, including Spidey. Maybe they even buy Marvel outright after WB and DC fall under the same corporate umbrella, and after Paramount’s success with Marvel.

So basically, Paramount’s post-1941/pre-1994 foray in animation is way better than OTL?

 

[TheFaultsofAlts]

So basically, Paramount’s post-1941/pre-1994 foray in animation is way better than OTL?

I mean, the bar was set pretty low for that part of the business.

 

[WotanArgead]

I have a question. What will be the state of the Japanese gaming industry if the country goes down the dirigist path? It's just that one of my colleagues writes a timeline where it is mentioned that in Japan, instead of neoliberalism, they have taken the path of strengthening the role of the state, and OTL countries where video game production is best developed are countries with free market capitalism (this colleague does not seem to be particularly interested in video games - for him Japan is cinema and drama shows).

 

[Nivek]

I have a question. What will be the state of the Japanese gaming industry if the country goes down the dirigist path? It's just that one of my colleagues writes a timeline where it is mentioned that in Japan, instead of neoliberalism, they have taken the path of strengthening the role of the state, and OTL countries where video game production is best developed are countries with free market capitalism (this colleague does not seem to be particularly interested in video games - for him Japan is cinema and drama shows).

How? Dirigist is too broad,did you mean fascist?

 

[WotanArgead]

How? Dirigist is too broad,did you mean fascist?

I meant only from a purely economic point of view.
I have already mentioned this scenario, but in short, by 1980, Miyazawa Kiichi’s faction won (from 1982 to 1986 - prime minister), as a result of which, instead of a neoliberal turn, the role of the state in the economy only increased (up to the nationalization of the railways). Later in the 90s, the Socialist Party came to power.
My colleague has plans for cinema, but he is not interested in video games, and I was interested in asking someone who understands this issue.

 

[Ninja2006]

Another idea: What if Tex Avery working on Paramount’s “Speaking with Animals” series resulted in Paramount hiring Tex to work on cartoons, with Paramount’s Miami-based Famous Studios on the east coast and Avery’s on the west?

• Pretty much all of Avery’s shorts at MGM would instead be done for Paramount. This includes Droopy and Screwy Squirrel and the Wolf and all the characters he created. Meanwhile, Famous Studios goes on as usual, making Popeye and Casper shorts and the like. There might be some crossover as well- Famous could take over Screwy when Avery throws him out, while Avery might get into making some Popeye cartoons.
• When Clampett makes the Time for Beany puppet show on the PARAMOUNT Television Network in 1948, Avery convinces him to join the animation studio as well.
• Paramount’s continued success with animation, combined with Clampett getting them in TV earlier, results in them not selling off their cartoons to U.M.&M., AAP, or Harvey Comics. Instead, when TV comes along and tries to steal their market share, they try to enter TV animation earlier.
• Enter Bill Scott. After he had written for Time for Beany, he would team up with Jay Ward for Rocky and Bullwinkle, resulting in it and other Jay Ward cartoons being made under Paramount. Their other TV outsourcing jobs, like Felix and TV Popeye, also occur, though they might have more ownership.
• Since IOTL Paramount worked on the Thor cartoon and were offered work on Spider-Man, ITTL they still work on Thor AND other Marvel cartoons, including Spidey. Maybe they even buy Marvel outright after WB and DC fall under the same corporate umbrella, and after Paramount’s success with Marvel.

Great ideas! Might even revive my old Paramount TL and base it off this.

So basically, Paramount’s post-1941/pre-1994 foray in animation is way better than OTL?

Basically.

I mean, the bar was set pretty low for that part of the business.

Right.

 

[Nivek]

I meant only from a purely economic point of view.
I have already mentioned this scenario, but in short, by 1980, Miyazawa Kiichi’s faction won (from 1982 to 1986 - prime minister), as a result of which, instead of a neoliberal turn, the role of the state in the economy only increased (up to the nationalization of the railways). Later in the 90s, the Socialist Party came to power.
My colleague has plans for cinema, but he is not interested in video games, and I was interested in asking someone who understands this issue.

In the 80's both all three japanese original hardware makers (Nintendo, Sega , Casio) where having plans for their console,msx already exist and I doubt that will affect that much (Nintendo barely used or needed government money)

A dirigist one even might help the Tokyo based ones as there wouldn't be less real estate speculation almost killed namco,snk and did hurt SEGA,but that might affect arcade space?

As economist, dirigist mean nothing as we dunno their policies? Would they stop the yen flotation? Or not sign Rockefeller agreement at all?

 

[WotanArgead]

As economist, dirigist mean nothing as we dunno their policies? Would they stop the yen flotation? Or not sign Rockefeller agreement at all?

Do you have any idea that the Japanese government is "interfering" with the yen exchange rate?
To be honest, I’m not sure - I can try to ask my colleague in more detail. I will also quote some points regarding economic policy.

Under Miyazawa, the role of knowledge-intensive industries in the economy continued to increase: railway and road transport were modernized, the entire country was covered by a cable television network, robotics and microelectronics received significant support from the state (Japan was ahead of the United States in the production of CNC machines by the end of the decade), automation swept almost the entire banking sector. At the same time, the role of the state in the economy continued to increase due to the complexity of its structure. For example, railway transport became almost 100% state-owned. The living conditions of the Japanese also improved - the country took one of the first places in terms of GNP per capita and hourly wages (this, however, was compensated by very high prices for goods and services), and the rise in labor costs, together with the increase in foreign activities of Japanese firms, attracted entails increased relocation of production abroad. Environmentally hazardous, energy- and material-intensive enterprises were located in Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore (and as Soviet-Japanese contacts expanded, in the USSR), and the freed-up capacity was switched to the production of complex equipment. Honda factories even appeared in America.

By 1985, the US trade deficit with Japan reached $51.4 billion, and Europe's was $16.6 billion. The Jack Kemp administration initiated a new trade agreement that would correct the imbalance by regulating foreign exchange markets. However, Miyazawa, who sought to prevent the yen from rising in price at all costs, since this threatened to collapse all Japanese exports, opposed such an agreement. The disagreement with the States overlapped with the active improvement of relations between Washington and Beijing and the transfer of American production to China, which was thus turning into Japan's main competitor in the region. For the LDP, the failure of the 1985 agreement was a turning point, after which a consensus to achieve political independence from America finally prevailed in the party. At the same time, trade volumes with the Soviet Union increased sharply - a fisheries agreement was concluded, Moscow became the most important supplier of not only raw materials, but also food for Japan, which by the 1980s had become its main importer. By the time Miyazawa's powers expired, the financial situation had been normalized, thanks to which the scraping process was stopped.

 

[CrashBandicam]

In the 80's both all three japanese original hardware makers (Nintendo, Sega , Casio) where having plans for their console,msx already exist and I doubt that will affect that much (Nintendo barely used or needed government money)

A dirigist one even might help the Tokyo based ones as there wouldn't be less real estate speculation almost killed namco,snk and did hurt SEGA,but that might affect arcade space?

As economist, dirigist mean nothing as we dunno their policies? Would they stop the yen flotation? Or not sign Rockefeller agreement at all?

Wait Casio were going to make their own console back in the 80s?

 

[Nivek]

Do you have any idea that the Japanese government is "interfering" with the yen exchange rate?
To be honest, I’m not sure - I can try to ask my colleague in more detail. I will also quote some points regarding economic policy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plaza_Accord in few words we even get the plaza accord as otl even too(depreciate the yen so could keep exporting cheap), but we seems your friend did a crash course of much of the bubble economy in a five year speed run..that at least avoid real estate especulation, so mid 80's there will be a minor shock but nothing as brutal as OTL buble and liquity trap(that they only raised their interest this month from negative show that)

Genuinely, Videogames are a luxury good whatever economist you ask, to they might not even be affected by the butterflies at all, for example, this doesn't affect the 1983 crash that was mostly an USA/NA phenomenon

Wait Casio were going to make their own console back in the 80s?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PV-1000 This one from Casio,Sega SG-1000 and the Famicom all three launched at the same time in Japan (the same late summer autumn in 1983) just in time to be destroyed by the Famicom

 

[CrashBandicam]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PV-1000 This one from Casio,Sega SG-1000 and the Famicom all three launched at the same time in Japan (the same late summer autumn in 1983) just in time to be destroyed by the Famicom

Woah, interesting. Now imagine a alternate universe where Casio was more successful with the PV-1000. Could we potentially see the console wars of the 90s being a 3-way battle between Nintendo, Sega, and Casio as well? Depending on how much success Casio has to continue fighting into the "16-bit" era, that is?

 

[TheFaultsofAlts]

We all know how Dragon Ball Z saved Toonami, and some people like Jess Matthews know how the inverse is true. But what if that happened earlier?

1994: Months after the foundation of Funimation Productions, Ted Turner strikes a deal with Gen Fukunaga to bring Dragon Ball to Cartoon Network in 1995. Not only is this because CN is gearing up to add anime the day after New Years, not only is this because Goku reminds Ted of both Superman and Shaggy, but it didn't hurt that Gen grew up in the Lone Star State itself.

1995: Dragon Ball airs weekday afternoons on Cartoon Network, alongside G-Force: Guardians of Space and Captain Planet. Not wanting to be second place again, USA Network picks up DiC Entertainment's dub of Sailor Moon for a 5 PM timeslot once Fox Kids passed on it. The halo effect allows for the channel to not give up on cartoons before Y2K.

1996: Instead of a merger, TimeWarner acquires 45% of Turner Broadcasting, meaning Ted Turner still runs his own ship for the time being. A good thing that's the case, because Dragon Ball Z premieres alongside the next pickup of Dragon Ball episodes. Meanwhile, Disney buys ABC and gets DiC Entertainment for free.

1997: Toonami Rising Sun is launched as a weekday morning counterpart to the afternoon block. Airing from 7-9 AM, Rising Sun's first lineup includes Captain Planet, Super Friends, G-Force: Guardians of Space, and Centurions: Power Extreme. Meanwhile, ThunderCats is added to the afternoon lineup at 4 PM, while USA Network adds Voltron and Robotech to their lineup. Rumors have also started about Disney Channel launching their own block.

1998: The original Dragon Ball ends its first cycle on Cartoon Network. Reruns of the show air on and off until 2004. USA Network picks up Jumanji: The Series and Hurricanes to join Sailor Moon and reruns of TMNT. Disney's rumored action block launches in September, and it's called Viewpoint. The block launches with Gargoyles, Hercules: The Series, Mummies Alive!, and Extreme Dinosaurs. Technically an all in-house lineup by way of the aforementioned DiC purchase. Also, because of CN, USA, and even Disney getting into the act, Fox Family does pick up cable rights to Power Rangers for its August relaunch.

1999: DBZ continues as clockwork, but Toonami picks up ReBoot for the afternoon lineup as Real Adventures of Jonny Quest moves to Rising Sun for a year or two. Also included this year is the launch of the Midnight Run in its original Saturday night form. Sonic Underground is added to Viewpoint, replacing Gargoyles.

2000: USA Network no longer has plans for animation on their block. They secede to Toonami and Viewpoint, which the latter finally adds Sailor Moon to their lineup. Speaking of Sailor Moon, Disney keeps DiC around as their action and anime label, while Disney sticks to comedies and pre-existing properties.

In other words? Buzz Lightyear, Tarzan, House of Mouse, Inspector Gadget, and Sabrina stick to their pre-existing labels at Disney and DiC, Kim Possible is a DiC Entertainment cartoon, and Horseland is a Disney cartoon.

Flushed with cash from their earlier deal with Turner, and associations with WB by proxy, Funimation decides to pick up their first non-DB acquisitions: Yu Yu Hakusho and Dr. Slump. The former would be on Toonami in 2002, while the latter would eventually wind up on Adult Swim in 2003.

2001: Dragon Ball Z finally airs its last episodes, although reruns keep the show alive for another decade. Meanwhile, they launch a new block called Super Saturday, which Samurai Jack is delayed into October to launch with it.

2002: Toonami Super Saturday gets three new shows: Transformers: Armada, a reboot of He-Man, and Funimation's Dragon Ball GT. They also pick up One Piece for Adult Swim, after realizing how much bloodshed and smoking there is on the show.

2005: Turner Broadcasting buys Funimation, while TimeWarner finally bites the bullet and acquires the rest of Turner Broadcasting. This coincidentally puts Dragon Ball in the same camp as Superman, a fact that makes playground talk revolve further around Goku vs. Superman debates. Vegeta vs. Batman debates also start popping up.

And to top it all off, Goku is added to MultiVersus at launch, giving Shaggy a more canon-accurate moveset.

 

[Nivek]

Jess Matthews

who?

@WotanArgead Nothing more about that alternate japan? I think besides a bigger stronger local market, the butterflies itself are not that different from OTL.

 

[TheFaultsofAlts]

who?

To answer your question:

Jessalyn Matthews 🏳️‍⚧️ (@foxkidsclub.bsky.social)

Kids TV historian, freelance video producer/graphic designer, and proud trans girl fighting for a better world. She/her, HRT 6/2/2023. Support my work at https://patreon.com/jessmatthewsproductions

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Jessalyn Matthews 🏳️‍⚧️ (@foxkidsclub.bsky.social)

So I don’t think this was common knowledge, but Funimation filed for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy in April 1998. Selling the DBZ broadcast rights to Cartoon Network literally saved the company.

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