Ok. That would be possible thing. In other hand butterflies might change Horthy's plans. Since he died in 1957 he could make something different like appoint Otto von Habsburg as his successor. Of course him should ensure that France and Britain and speciality neighbors are fine with that. But since OTL Entente was pretty willingful to accept Hitler's actions to reduce Treaty of Versailles they hardly care if Habsburgs return to Hungarian throne as long as it doesn't mean return of Habsburg Empire.
8mm to the Left: If Hitler Died in 1923
- Thread starter KaiserKatze
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Ok. That would be possible thing. In other hand butterflies might change Horthy's plans. Since he died in 1957 he could make something different like appoint Otto von Habsburg as his successor. Of course him should ensure that France and Britain and speciality neighbors are fine with that. But since OTL Entente was pretty willingful to accept Hitler's actions to reduce Treaty of Versailles they hardly care if Habsburgs return to Hungarian throne as long as it doesn't mean return of Habsburg Empire.
Considering that you ask about monarchism in Hungary,will you do something about Romania? Like keeping up Carol 2 from the throne and screwing up?
I am currently doing research on Dollfuss's fascist Austria for a future Austria chapter, and something I never knew was that Austrofascism heavily romanticised the Habsburgs and wanted to restore them but fear of the Little Entente and Nazis prevented them from doing so. It does make me wonder, especially given their continued popularity in Hungary, what that might have grown to... maybe not something as extreme as full union as a restored Austria-Hungary, but still.
That's an excellent question. I have some plans for Romania in the late 30's, but unfortunately I can't see anything which will happen earlier which would hurt his regime, unless you have an idea?
The trend towards Authoritarianism won't have the Nazi push of history but there are still the Italians, not to mention the Polish (once that shift happens). As such, Carol II will probably have the same initial success.
That's how he gained the throne,you may be inspired:
He stood out, during the First World War, by deserting the army and illegally marrying Ioana Lambrino, which resulted in two abdications of the throne, not accepted by his father. After the dissolution of this marriage, he made a long trip around the world, at the end of which he met Princess Elena of Greece, whom he married in March 1921, the couple having a child, Prince Mihai. Carol left her family and remained abroad in December 1925, abdicating again and living in France with Elena Lupescu, under the name Carol Caraiman. Mihai inherited the throne, following the death of King Ferdinand I, in 1927.
In the political context created by the death of King Ferdinand and that of Ion I.C. Brătianu, as well as the lack of firmness of the regency led by Prince Nicolae, Carol returned to Romania in 1930, dethroning her own son.
That part I did know, though I appreciate it being broken down for easier reading!
My issue is more that the ripples won't really begin affecting other nations until 1933 and, really, 1934, when the Nazis began actively influencing stuff but in this timeline are a non-threat. What that means is that he will still dethrone his son, and anything to change that status quo won't be until the late 30's.
Another issue is that he is still, technically, a von Hohenzollern, and von Lettow-Vorbeck may be biased to respect him more as a monarch and especially a member of the former ruling family (albeit the Swabian branch).
Ah,good to know. I know that he is a von Hohenzollern,but there were also other options like his son Mihai or his brother Nicolae to be kings instead of hin,Keep up the good work,
This is true. And there will definitely be effects, but without the Nazis with their specific anti-semetic goals and Hungary being so heavily courted, Carol's path to gaining or losing power will be very different. The relationship between Germany and the Balkan nations is one I am quite excited to get to, especially Yugoslavia, because that is where the ripples will be bigger and sooner. But Romania will not be forgotten!
Let me guess King Alexander of Yugoslavia will survive for longer ITTL?
Not quite, he does get assassinated like IRL, BUT Prince Paul as Regent will get a lot more focus. While researching for this story I realised that Paul was a really, legitimately good ruler and just did his best, and also wasn't as prone to the bias and drama of the Serbian nobility.
I know this is still far-off, but what would be interesting would be how no Nazis and a different WW2 (if it still is a thing) would affect the nature of decolonization? I imagine that the path to independence for many post-colonial countries would be more revolutionary without WW2 and the exhaustion of European powers who were now dependent on the United States to spur on decolonization.
The specifics of when and if a WW2 happens will happen way in the future and a lot will be based on that. I will probably end the story in the 60's or so but include a flash-forward to modern times, including a world map (which I have roughly drawn up already).
Regarding decolonisation. I personally feel that without WW2, it still would have happened, but a lot more slowly and less total. By that I mean that I think we would see more pseudo-independancy (think France's economic union with their colonies) and more nations keeping the colonial languages. I also think that there would be a higher chance of some colonies choosing to stay, especially smaller ones with less chance of going solo. For example, without WW2 I see North Africa (except maybe Morocco and Egypt) staying with their colonial overlords, as well as some of the smaller nations which would fear their neighbours (like Ivory Coast nations, especially the Christian ones). I think a lot would depend on what they are offered, however, and how soon.
Some regions were already considered integrated even by 1939 in our time. The Dutch had the Moluccas and Suriname, the French had Algeria and stuff like Dahomey, Italian Libya was pretty integrated, Portuguese Angola and Mozambique... you get my point.
If there is a WW2 it’s going to be with the Soviets. It will probably be much later though. Stalin was very cautious and would only pounce if the rest of Europe was in chaos.
Also I really hope you restore the German Monarchy. I know I’ve said that before but there are not a lot of (good) Hohenzollern restoration TLs.
Also I really hope you restore the German Monarchy. I know I’ve said that before but there are not a lot of (good) Hohenzollern restoration TLs.
Probably even post-Stalin USSR won't begin mess with Europe. But development of USSR is pretty intresting without WW2. And Stalin might live couple years longer without stress of the war. He probably now focus more to East Asia.
I would really like if there are more monarchy restoration but I have a question will Tannu Tuva survive?
I am starting to get tempted to put a poll on if people prefer or oppose a monarchy restoration. It won't change what I have planned, but more out of curiousity to see.
What an oddly-specific question. No, they will in all likeliness end up annexed into Mongolia or Russia.