List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage II

Jan Olbracht

Older Mary of Burgundy:

Catherine of France (1428-1463) m. Charles (1433-1482) Duke of Burgundy

1) Mary (1450-1502) Duchess of Burgundy, m. Nicholas (1448-1478) Duke of Lorraine

1) Philip IV (1468-1532) Duke of Lorraine, Burgundy and Anjou, m. Elizabeth of England (1466-1524)​
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2) Mary (1470-1487) m. Charles VIII (1470-1500) King of France​
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3) Catherine (1471-1523) m. Edward V (1470-1527) King of England​
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4) Charles (1473-1479)​
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5) John (1475-1521) Duke of Bar, m. Sibylle of Baden (1485-1518)​
 

Kellan Sullivan

EdwardRex said:
After King Henry VIII’s death, nine year-old Margaret was proclaimed Queen of England. Her reign was to last but nine days, as her elder half-sister Mary managed to assume the throne from the young child. Edward and Thomas Seymour, the heads of Margaret’s regency council, were executed. Mary quickly began the reunification of the Church of England with Rome, which made her popular.
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I respect Claire as a historian, but her delvings into alt-history are sadly unimaginative. It's pretty unlikely that either Henry will remarry to any of his OTL last three wives. More likely Karl V gets the pope to sign off on Kristina of Denmark as wife no. 4 (OTL, he strung Henry along behind the dispensation problem). And even if he does marry Anne of Kleve, I somehow doubt that he has the marriage annulled as OTL. Or that he would leave the crown to a 9yo girl over his adult daughter. Even if he doesn't "relegitimate" Mary (as OTL), she's the tacit heir so long as he has no son.
 

isabella

Kellan Sullivan said:
I respect Claire as a historian, but her delvings into alt-history are sadly unimaginative. It's pretty unlikely that either Henry will remarry to any of his OTL last three wives. More likely Karl V gets the pope to sign off on Kristina of Denmark as wife no. 4 (OTL, he strung Henry along behind the dispensation problem). And even if he does marry Anne of Kleve, I somehow doubt that he has the marriage annulled as OTL. Or that he would leave the crown to a 9yo girl over his adult daughter. Even if he doesn't "relegitimate" Mary (as OTL), she's the tacit heir so long as he has no son.
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Legally Margaret would be the only legitimate daughter of Henry VIII so she would be heiress ahead of Mary
 
EdwardRex

EdwardRex

Kellan Sullivan said:
I respect Claire as a historian, but her delvings into alt-history are sadly unimaginative. It's pretty unlikely that either Henry will remarry to any of his OTL last three wives. More likely Karl V gets the pope to sign off on Kristina of Denmark as wife no. 4 (OTL, he strung Henry along behind the dispensation problem). And even if he does marry Anne of Kleve, I somehow doubt that he has the marriage annulled as OTL. Or that he would leave the crown to a 9yo girl over his adult daughter. Even if he doesn't "relegitimate" Mary (as OTL), she's the tacit heir so long as he has no son.
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The specific prompt was that Henry maintained his OTL last three wives. He does actually leave the throne to Margaret, but Mary ends of usurping it a la Jane Grey.
Kellan Sullivan said:
while this is true, I feel like her age is going to be more an issue than her legitimacy
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Yes, her age is the issue and why she didn’t end up remaining Queen.
 
kasumigenx

kasumigenx

Catherine of Aragon has two daughters and her marriage with Henry VIII gets annulled shortly after Mary was born

Catherine of Aragon d. 1535 m. Arthur, Prince of Wales d. 1502(a) Henry VIII of England ann. 1516(b) Manuel I of Portugal(c)

1b. Elizabeth b. 1510-

2b. Henry of Cornwall b. d. 1511

3b.Mary b. 1516-

4c. John of Portugal b. 1518-

5c. Ferdinand of Portugal b. 1520-



Henry VIII d. 1547 m. Catherine of Aragon ann. 1516(a) Renee of Bourbon d. 1528(b) Anne Boleyn d. 1536(c) Jane Seymour d. 1537(d) Christina of Denmark(e)

1a. Elizabeth b. 1510-

2a. Henry of Cornwall b. d. 1511

3a. Mary b. 1516-

4b. Margaret b. 1518-

5b. Edward, Prince of Wales b. d. 1522 d. 1533

6b. Renee b. 1528-

7c. Anne b. 1533-

8d. Edward VI b. 1537 d. 1553

9e. Christina of b. 1540-
 
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wwbgdiaslt

Matilda Regina
some notes I found on an early version of the TL in my timeline

Empress Matilda, b. 1102, r. 1135 to 1167, m. Godfrey of Louvain

Godfrey FitzEmpress, b. 1139, r. 1167 to 1173, m. Gisela FitzClito

Henry (II) the Usurper, b. 1141, r. 1173 to 1174 (i), m. Margaret Dunkeld of Scotland

William III, b. 1162, r. 1174 to 1200 (ii), m. Alice of France

Philip the Bold, r. 1180, r. 1200 to 1210, m. Agnes of Jerusalem

Agnes the Holy, b. 1200, r. 1210 to 1242

(i) Henry the Usurper and his Scottish wife, Lady Margaret Dunkeld, pull off a coup. Officially eleven year old William, Earl of Leicester, should be King with Henry as Regent, but Henry does a Richard III and steals it for himself. The young King here fares better than Edward V and reclaims his throne in shortly under a year.
(ii) William III exists in the TL as William FitzLeuven, who becomes a legendary Archbishop and Diplomat, and he demonstrates similar skills, marrying Alice of France in order to consolidate English domain in Normandy and Maine, flattering his brother-in-law, Philip Augustus, by naming his first son after him,
iii) Philip marries Agnes of Jerusalem (Amalric lives about six years longer) and they have a daughter, meaning that a descendant of Fulk V of Anjou still takes the English throne, just a generation later than OTL.
 

Nova_Philomena

Prompt: A bit wild and maybe ASB. But Basically, after Arthur, Prince of Wales dies, Henry Tudor (VIII) and Mary Tudor die, and are soon followed by their mother Elizabeth, and with only Margaret Tudor alive, Henry VII marries Catherine of Aragon with no disputes from her parents.

Catherine of Aragon (b. 1485 d. 1540) m. Arthur, Prince of Wales (b. 1486 d. 1502) and Henry VII of England (b. 1457 d. 1509)
  1. Edward VI of England (b. 1504 d. 1579) m. Isabella of Portugal (b. 1503 d. 1538) and Christina of Denmark (b. 1521 d. 1590)
  2. Catherine of England (b. 1505 d. 1537) m. Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1500 d. 1558)
  3. Jasper Tudor, Duke of York (b. 1506 d. 1570) m. Elizabeth Grey (b. 1505 d. 1580)
 

Dragonboy

Nova_Philomena said:
Prompt: A bit wild and maybe ASB. But Basically, after Arthur, Prince of Wales dies, Henry Tudor (VIII) and Mary Tudor die, and are soon followed by their mother Elizabeth, and with only Margaret Tudor alive, Henry VII marries Catherine of Aragon with no disputes from her parents.

Catherine of Aragon (b. 1485 d. 1540) m. Arthur, Prince of Wales (b. 1486 d. 1502) and Henry VII of England (b. 1457 d. 1509)
  1. Edward VI of England (b. 1504 d. 1579) m. Isabella of Portugal (b. 1503 d. 1538) and Christina of Denmark (b. 1521 d. 1590)
  2. Catherine of England (b. 1505 d. 1537) m. Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1500 d. 1558)
  3. Jasper Tudor, Duke of York (b. 1506 d. 1570) m. Elizabeth Grey (b. 1505 d. 1580)
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Suggestion: Henry VIII dies in a jousting accident shortly after his marriage to Catherine, leaving the crown of england to his elder sister Margaret.
 

BoleynBuff

Nova_Philomena said:
Prompt: A bit wild and maybe ASB. But Basically, after Arthur, Prince of Wales dies, Henry Tudor (VIII) and Mary Tudor die, and are soon followed by their mother Elizabeth, and with only Margaret Tudor alive, Henry VII marries Catherine of Aragon with no disputes from her parents.

Catherine of Aragon (b. 1485 d. 1540) m. Arthur, Prince of Wales (b. 1486 d. 1502) and Henry VII of England (b. 1457 d. 1509)
  1. Edward VI of England (b. 1504 d. 1579) m. Isabella of Portugal (b. 1503 d. 1538) and Christina of Denmark (b. 1521 d. 1590)
  2. Catherine of England (b. 1505 d. 1537) m. Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1500 d. 1558)
  3. Jasper Tudor, Duke of York (b. 1506 d. 1570) m. Elizabeth Grey (b. 1505 d. 1580)
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You really only need Arthur and Henry dead. Isabella and Ferdinand will be fine with Cat marrying H7 when he has no male heir.
 

Dragonboy

Nova_Philomena said:
I kinda think the throne would go to Mary Rose Tudor in this scenario, no way would anyone allow that to happen.
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Nope, remember that Henry tried to make Mary's line heirs in case his own went extinct but it went to margaret's line instead. Plus a union would be seen as beneficial
 

Nova_Philomena

Dragonboy said:
Nope, remember that Henry tried to make Mary's line heirs in case his own went extinct but it went to margaret's line instead. Plus a union would be seen as beneficial
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This would be more useful if this happened after 1513 after James IV was already dead, this way, Margaret could marry an English Nobleman to secure her crown in England. I still think Mary Rose Tudor would've gotten a better shot, but if you really don't want her as Queen, have it be after 1513.
 

Dragonboy

Nova_Philomena said:
This would be more useful if this happened after 1513 after James IV was already dead, this way, Margaret could marry an English Nobleman to secure her crown in England. I still think Mary Rose Tudor would've gotten a better shot, but if you really don't want her as Queen, have it be after 1513.
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Then let's also have mary die of a disease shortly after her borther so england has no choice but to have margaret as queen.
 

Nova_Philomena

Dragonboy said:
Before, James would be still be alive and the union would happen with more stability
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The problem with that is the English People wouldn't accept a Stewart King of England. If you have James die, Margaret would more easily take the crown and she could probably married Thomas Howard shortly before he marries Lizzie Stafford, she doesn't even have to have kids with them. But having the Howard Family's backing would make England more lenient towards her. In the end, James V could still inherit England.
 

Dragonboy

Nova_Philomena said:
The problem with that is the English People wouldn't accept a Stewart King of England. If you have James die, Margaret would more easily take the crown and she could probably married Thomas Howard shortly before he marries Lizzie Stafford, she doesn't even have to have kids with them. But having the Howard Family's backing would make England more lenient towards her. In the end, James V could still inherit England.
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true.
 
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