Stupid Luck and Happenstance, Thread III
- Thread starter Peabody-Martini
- Start date
The Berlin ITTL is much bigger, more populous, and much more important then IOTL.
Hertha BCS needs a new stadium at this point IOTL and having a modern 35-48,00 all seat stadium may be a possibility.
Of course if Berlin gets the 1972 Olympics then the IOTL host Munich then Tegal is going to be needed a little bit longer.
After the success of the Tempelhof Project the much bigger Tegal project is going to be too big for Kat & Company to handle so a consortium may need to be created and having Kat playing a major role will go a long way in establishing the credibility to the public's eyes.
Poor Manfred von Richthofen we are seeing his ego being deflated before our very eyes and the fact that his son Albrecht is held in higher esteem then him just adds to that, but don't despair Manfred with the 50th Anniversary of the ITTL end of WW I there will be a great outpouring of affection, appreciation, and respect from all over the world and I will bet that a little known comic strip in the United States will use you as an off-screen character.
Tegel could survive in a role similar to Hobby in Houston or Midway in Chicago.
ferdi254
Banned
That is pretty early. OTL way into the 70s flights were a luxury thar could only be afforded by very few people so small airports were pretty much cutting it. In the 80s it became cheaper but still Tegel was way below maximum capacity.
Way until the 90s Munich was served by Riem pretty much in the middle of the city.
And losing any pet animal is heartbraking I do know very well. And people who are not emphatic to that....😖
It was the final brick that broke the 🐪 back in a relationship for me once. And yes straw to smbrick is intentionally.
Way until the 90s Munich was served by Riem pretty much in the middle of the city.
And losing any pet animal is heartbraking I do know very well. And people who are not emphatic to that....😖
It was the final brick that broke the 🐪 back in a relationship for me once. And yes straw to smbrick is intentionally.
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ferdi254
Banned
Oh and btw for homosexuality. Folks we are talking mid 60s Bavaria and a Bavaria that has not seen the influx of the refugees from the east and also not the industry they brought with them and also not all the billions that the CSU OTL had been able to syphon out of federal tax money into Bavaria and not the billions the rich northwest had to pay to them in the intrastate financial burden sharing.
So a MUCH more agrarian and catholic state. And the future king and his wife both being gay? I‘d rather sell heating devices to people living in the death valley than selling this particular couple to TTL Bavaria.
So a MUCH more agrarian and catholic state. And the future king and his wife both being gay? I‘d rather sell heating devices to people living in the death valley than selling this particular couple to TTL Bavaria.
As long as Franz and Vicky are not openly flouting themselves and their public lives are above reproach, No one is really is going to care and IOTL Franz is a member in good standing in a prestigious Vactican Order.
First off there is going to be a big show of Vicky converting to Catholicism which will make the Church Hierarchy very happy to have someone from the First Family of German Protestantism joining the "One True Faith".
Second the Bavarian State will use the Royal Wedding to bring in the tourists Dollars, Pounds, and Marks and some of those tourists are going to be business people who might think that Bavaria is both a mixture of "Old World Charm" and cutting edge technology and may want to open manufacturing plants, offices, and research facilities.
Third the longer King Albrecht lives as he does in OTL the less the people will care about the state of Franz and Victoria's marriage.
First off there is going to be a big show of Vicky converting to Catholicism which will make the Church Hierarchy very happy to have someone from the First Family of German Protestantism joining the "One True Faith".
Second the Bavarian State will use the Royal Wedding to bring in the tourists Dollars, Pounds, and Marks and some of those tourists are going to be business people who might think that Bavaria is both a mixture of "Old World Charm" and cutting edge technology and may want to open manufacturing plants, offices, and research facilities.
Third the longer King Albrecht lives as he does in OTL the less the people will care about the state of Franz and Victoria's marriage.
What ejpsan says. As long as Franz and Vicky turn up to events together, act like one would expect a husband and wife to when the cameras are on them, and have a couple of kids, nobody's going to bat an eyelid at their having 'good friends' visiting/staying at their very large residence that has nice large walls surrounding it to keep away the paparazzi,
It wouldn't even be a case of 'people won't care'. Your average Bavarian farmer wouldn't even suspect they were both gay (indeed, probably wouldn't even know what being gay was) and if they did know would sharply rebuke anyone who suggested that they were for having a sordid mind, that they were a lovely couple and that the person who suggested it is putting some kind of bizarre construction on their keeping up old friendships.
And again, that's assuming anyone outside noble circles (who tend to deliberately look the other way as long as niceties are observed) ever figures it out. Again to use the average Bavarian farmer: literally all he'll ever see of the prince and princess is their going to public events together. What they do at home will be a closed book to him.
I could honestly see them living fairly happy if semi-closeted lives with their partners being 'good friends who frequently visit/serve as a lady-in-waiting', and the public never realising even after they're both dead and buried.
The school visit by Ilse & Manfred the Elder was brilliant. It highlighted the changes in German society and managed to mildly embarrass Manfred..
Ben and Wim rediscover the ancient military proverb "Hurry up & wait" while coming to terms that their aircraft is a very different beast from when they first flew due to constant upgrades.
As for how the more traditional Bavarians (& other Germans) might react to finding out that both Vicky & Franz are 'Friends of Old Fritz', you have to factor in that very traditional response to the activities of Royalty. What might be intolerable if their neighbour was discovered to be LGBTQA+ is far more acceptable in a royal. Everyone knows royal folk are different, they have different ways, and unless it causes direct harm to the 'peasantry', what they do doesn't really matter all that much. Besides, 'Old Fritz' himself was... well, you know... so best not mind too much.
Ben and Wim rediscover the ancient military proverb "Hurry up & wait" while coming to terms that their aircraft is a very different beast from when they first flew due to constant upgrades.
As for how the more traditional Bavarians (& other Germans) might react to finding out that both Vicky & Franz are 'Friends of Old Fritz', you have to factor in that very traditional response to the activities of Royalty. What might be intolerable if their neighbour was discovered to be LGBTQA+ is far more acceptable in a royal. Everyone knows royal folk are different, they have different ways, and unless it causes direct harm to the 'peasantry', what they do doesn't really matter all that much. Besides, 'Old Fritz' himself was... well, you know... so best not mind too much.
Very much so
On the subject of Manfred, it’s a shame Sabaton have been almost certainly butterflied away... I could see his descendants rather enjoying this:
And again, that’s assuming your average traditional Bavarian even knows (or admits to knowing) what homosexuality is. Ignorance, bliss, etc.
I’m put in mind of a bit in Raymond Briggs’ Ethel and Ernest book:
Ernest: (Reading paper) Says here they’re decriminalising homosexuality.
Ethel: What’s that?
Ernest: Well, em, it’s when two chaps, you know, only with each other.
Ethel: I don’t know what you’re talking about, Ernest, and I don’t think you do either.
Very much so
On the subject of Manfred, it’s a shame Sabaton have been almost certainly butterflied away... I could see his descendants rather enjoying this:
And again, that’s assuming your average traditional Bavarian even knows (or admits to knowing) what homosexuality is. Ignorance, bliss, etc.
I’m put in mind of a bit in Raymond Briggs’ Ethel and Ernest book:
Ernest: (Reading paper) Says here they’re decriminalising homosexuality.
Ethel: What’s that?
Ernest: Well, em, it’s when two chaps, you know, only with each other.
Ethel: I don’t know what you’re talking about, Ernest, and I don’t think you do either.
The old " 'Did you see that?' 'No. And neither did you.' " approach.
Chaperones & trusted companions. Providers of secure closets since homophobia became a thing.
My main worry about the upcoming Nuptials between Crown Prince Franz of Bavaria and Her Imperial Princess Victoria of Prussia is while her sister Kiki is against the marriage she is willing to put aside her objections and fully support Victoria if that is what she really wants, it is our resident shit-stirrer Rea who might start something that will blow up in everybody's faces.
The Catholic Church is going to be a part of this charade as long as the children of Franz and Victoria are raised to be Catholic and they themselves are seen by the public as being good Catholics, IOTL Franz is a Grand Knight with Collar of the Order of the Holy Sepulchre.
Especially if the phrase "Well, there's always one of the Protestant creeds and Buddhism seems to have a few good things going for it..." is discretely mentioned to the Papal Nuncio & the cardinal responsible for Bavaria IF they are daft enough to bring it up. Bavaria itself will remain predominately Catholic, but the Papacy would prefer to keep the royals as well.
Or alternatively:
ARCHBISHOP: The Church cannot stay silent! This is sinful...
ALBRECHT: (opens a suitcase full of money/hints at land grants for new church building/whatever)
ARCHBISHOP: ...let’s not be hasty here, Your Majesty. I am sure that I was mistaken.
In all seriousness, while historically there have been bad times and extremely bad times to be gay...let’s be honest, the wealthier someone was or the higher up the totem pole they were, the easier it became to hide in plain sight.
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ferdi254
Banned
I am not so much talking about the bigwigs here. Germany OTL had crowds blocking cinemas for „decadent“ movies. A song line „child why have you only been in in the morning“ was deemed to erotic in Bavaria and so the song was banned! The 60s were a huge cultural clash in that matter.
Those christian movements might be not as big and powerful TTL (no Hitlerrebound) on the other hand the 60s movement’s would due to the same reason also much less powerful.
Those christian movements might be not as big and powerful TTL (no Hitlerrebound) on the other hand the 60s movement’s would due to the same reason also much less powerful.
That or:
ARCHBISHOP: The Church cannot stay silent! This is sinful...
ALBRECHT: I'm sorry the Church feels that way, Your Grace, but while you're here I think its time we had a serious talk about all those back-taxes the Church owes the Crown ...
ARCHBISHOP: ... let's not be hasty here, Your Majesty, I am sure that I was mistaken.
Sure, I get that. My main point previously was that people aren't going to think that Franz and Vicky are gay unless they're literally seen in bed with their partners. As long as they appear at events together, seem suitably affectionate and have an heir and a spare...why would anyone suspect? OK, servants might know, but I imagine they'll be well-paid and have very solid job security specifically to discourage them from spreading gossip...