The eagle's left head
- Thread starter Lascaris
- Start date
Thanks. Dialogue is not my strongest point. But I'll stick to the advise of my dad liked to say "the eye timid the hand daring." Or in translation "stop worrying and do it!" 😛
Alexandros if I may say so myself was a pretty original idea dealing with a certain problem. 😇
I'd argue this has to do with the whole "great man of theory" argument about how they don't really change history. Which if I may say so is silly. Frex if Alexander the Great had been born... Cleopatra, the Greeks may still have invaded and conquered parts of the Persian empire sure. They wouldn’t have marched all the way to India though. Nevermind Alexander not dying at the exact time he did.
No comment....
Andronikos II was arguably the showcase on why the Byzantine practice of replacing 5he emperor by coup was a good idea...
Not yet.
As successful as the Vataztes have been insofar, they are stretching themselves wide and not actually eliminating any major enemies other than the Latin dukes of Hellas. If all conflicts flare up at once, the options will be losing one region at least temporarily, or risking defeat in detail across the board if their fleet cannot ferry troops across fast enough.
They're helped by being a maritime power and the eastern Mediterranean's fragmentation, but I think fundamentally I would agree. The Vatazes at the very least need to secure something like a heartland for themselves and as long as Sicily is contested it can't be there, even if that's where most of the money comes from.
They won't be getting volunteer troops from Anatolia forever, after all.
Greece might actually be the best bet. If they can become the effective masters of the Peloponnesian peninsula, there's really no one except maybe the Serbs that can offer much resistance. It would give them a decent recruiting ground, and make their strategic position a bit less strung out if they decided to look to Constantinople.
Surely nothing bad can happen a couple decades down the line, when the Serbians actually arrive at the footstep of the Peloponnese and Attica, that some blind bard could then write down in some forgettable poem...
I just happen to have remembered Marco Polo has been alive through the time of this TL events. Anything of note about him featuring in the TL? I know he has only a few years left, but I'm curious to know if he crossed path with the Vatatzes family ITTL.
I doubt that Theodore will have children, at least not with Andrianne. In OTL Simonis didn't have any children with Milutin. She had been repeatedly raped as a child by that vile man. Severe trauma aside, such horrible thing would severely limit her chances for a successful pregnancy.
One might note that Maria of Anjou had no children by both her husbands. And given that her first husband Sancho of Majorca had 5 illegitimate children from three different mistresses one may doubt the problem was his...
Maybe she was getting anti pregnancy herbs out of spite? Anyhow this is an alternative Andrianne so maybe she could be fertile.
A bastard or a surprise child from Theodore and Adrianne (which I like bc more connections to the purple) seems to make the most sense if Maria and Ioannes aren't going to have children.
Tbf her being pregnant and then dying from childbirth would be a possibility.
Another problem if Ioannis doesn't have a child, it's Achaea, which is technically Maria's dowry. Even though I doubt the Vatatzes would bother about legal niceties when they hold de facto control on the ground, it could spell future troubles between Syracuse and Naples if the Angevins claim that legally Achaea is to return to them in the absence of an heir sired to Maria.
And to think of it happening around the time, say, the Serbians arrive at the doorstep of Peloponnese and Attica...
Sure we won't see the Serbs besieging Corinth or Athens for ten years (it's not as if the Ottomans "besieged" Candia for 21 years)...
And to think of it happening around the time, say, the Serbians arrive at the doorstep of Peloponnese and Attica...
Sure we won't see the Serbs besieging Corinth or Athens for ten years (it's not as if the Ottomans "besieged" Candia for 21 years)...
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Thing is I don't see the Angevins being able to contest it considering the next ruler is Joanna and her reign isn't the most stable really, especially if the Hungarians attempt to take Naples too. I defo see a few nobles attempting to take it back tho, but could they really considering how good the Vatatzes navy is?Another problem if Ioannis doesn't have a child, it's Achaea, which is technically Maria's dowry. Even though I doubt the Vatatzes would bother about legal niceties when they hold de facto control on the ground, it could spell future troubles between Syracuse and Naples if the Angevins claim that legally Achaea is to return to them in the absence of an heir sired to Maria.
And to think of it happening around the time, say, the Serbians arrive at the doorstep of Peloponnese and Attica...
Sure we won't see the Serbs besieging Corinth or Athens for ten years (it's not as if the Ottomans "besieged" Candia for 21 years)...
What are the odds that she got conceived with the same sperm and egg in this timeline?
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On another hand, I notice this TL began because one woman had a boy where OTL she did not have children...
Vince
Monthly Donor
It's not like the people in this TL can access a CK3 screen on each person.
Ionnes: "My wife has the barren trait? Robert, why the hell didn't you tell me this before betrothing her to me?"
More seriously the TL has been relatively conservative with butterflies so far. Why? Because it is trying to explore the consequences of specific changes. If someone butterflies away the hundred years war for example which conceivably can be butterflied away it becomes the hundred years war not happening. So is the alt Maria the exact same person with OTL? Perhaps not but she still has the same broad genetic background and was raised under the same conditions. Does this mean she is infertile TTL? She might. Or it's Ioannis fault. Or they will have a daughter next year. Or she wasn't infertile even in OTL, there is at least one reference to her having a miscarriage... which given medical science of the time or lack thereof is entirely possible to happen TTL.
Then, do Ioannis and Theodoros have a little brother or sister we did not hear of?
Otherwise between Maria and Simonis, I'm afraid at the perspective there will be no Vatatzes left to inherit the Despotate, at least any legitimate heir, once both brothers are in the tomb, and the TL with them, which I hope not.
If there is a female heir, either a daughter of Alexandros or either Ioannis' or Theodore's, I'd guess the natural candidate to marry her to and succeed to the Despotate would be Alexios Philantropenos' son by Theodora Akropolitissa and Vatatzes cousin, Michael (if the wiki page is right). So, where is Michael now ?
I don't remember reading anything on him in the TL yet. I can only suppose he was born in the early 1290s, before Alexios' revolt, barely a decade apart from Ioannis and Theodore, same generation, so a good fit for any sister around.
EDIT: Could we have a family tree for House Vatatzes ? Possibly the Philantropenos too.
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Alexandros had no other children besides Ioannis and Theodore. At the moment neither has any children legitimate or otherwise. 😇
Alexios Philanthropinos had a single son Michael with Theodora Akropolites, the granddaughter of the historian. And possibly also a daughter Maria. We can say he has both TTL, Given that Alexandros was married to Alexios sister this makes them first cousins to ioannis and Theodore.