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I don't want to create a TL. Because I don't have the time to do it. The projects I have on Deviantart and the shitty Roman Empire, plus the RL take up a lot of time.

But I'd love to hear your opinions.
Would it be possible to see a German Empire formed from Bavaria? And when would it be possible to bring down the POD?

Certainly not after Napoleon, at least I think so. So in the 18th century, but when? War of the Austrian Succession?

And Prussia? Would it have the strength to stay out of a south-oriented German empire?
 
I think that POD should be during War of Austrian Succession or earlier. Later is probably too late. And yes, after Napoleonic Wars it is definitely too late since Prussia and Austria are clear top dogs and Bavaria on that time was at best mid-level player.
 
what about having Ferdinand Maria of Bavaria being successfully elected as emperor after Ferdinand III? Or Max II Emanuel gets elected after Joseph I because Karl VI is king of Spain?
 
I think that the main problem might be that if Bavaria becomes strong enough to eventually push for German unification, it means that France also becomes too strong. And a strong France will do everything to prevent german unification. In the best case for Bavaria you could get a German Empire east of the Rhine.

Like if Charles VII of Bavaria wins and is recognised King of Bohemia and Archduke of Austria, it means that France gets the Austrian Netherlands, Luxembourg, and the Spanish Bourbons get Italy.

Or if Louis XIV gets the Imperial Crown for Maximilian Emmanuel. For that, you would need a French victory at Blenheim, which is the closest you could get to a total French victory in the War of Spanish Succession, since it would mean France getting the upperhand in every single front of the war in Europe.
 
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How far back are you willing to go? Because, the Salians (being Dukes of Bavaria) could theoretically have unified Germany, with the right luck.
 
I don't want to create a TL. Because I don't have the time to do it. The projects I have on Deviantart and the shitty Roman Empire, plus the RL take up a lot of time.

But I'd love to hear your opinions.
Would it be possible to see a German Empire formed from Bavaria? And when would it be possible to bring down the POD?

Certainly not after Napoleon, at least I think so. So in the 18th century, but when? War of the Austrian Succession?

And Prussia? Would it have the strength to stay out of a south-oriented German empire?


I would go with a pod from the 14th century, when the Wittelsbachs were competing for the imperial throne with the Luxembourgs and Habsburgs, I practically suggest a better last part of the reign for Ludwig IV compared to Otl ( perhaps with the accompanying defeat of Charles of Bohemia in 1347, which quite feasible given that before his death Ludwig was about to go into battle against him, and according to historians he had a slight numerical advantage compared to the Luxembourg anti-king ) this allows him to have a free hand for the moment in Germany ( it is considering that all at the time, the Wittelsbachs held Bavaria, the Palatinate, Holland, Zeeland, Hainaut and Brandenburg ) furthermore Ludwig had an important direct influence in Italy ( especially in Rome, where he also gave birth to one of his sons, called the Romanus, Otl Ludwig VI ) therefore depending on how events develop, we will find ourselves faced with an HRE that returns to the path of centralization, albeit with some concessions of territorial autonomy, given that Ludwig had conceived, like Charles IV in Otl, a sort of Golden Bull , but which would have included all three kingdoms constituting the Reich ( Italy, Burgundy / Arelate and Germany ), certainly it is not a purely German empire as the author of the discussion requested, but something on a completely different scale ( given that it would be an Empire that would include from the Baltic Sea to the Mediterranean, and as many different languages and cultures, but no less achievable for this, indeed in reality this was one of the last concrete moments in which such a state could in some way be formed ( if we exclude the Habsburgs in Otl, who were the ones with the greatest possibility of trying again and potentially succeeding but faced much worse problems ( such as the Reformation and the French -Ottoman axis ) which prevented them from fully concentrating on the realization )
 
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How far back are you willing to go? Because, the Salians (being Dukes of Bavaria) could theoretically have unified Germany, with the right luck.
Well, i think around modern age.

you would need a French victory at Blenheim, which is the closest you could get to a total French victory in the War of Spanish Succession, since it would mean France getting the upperhand in every single front of the war in Europe.

We could say that is France becomes the main European power for a century or so, Bavaria being a junior ally could benefice controlling (although not thightly) Holy Roman Empire.
Than, when France will decline (i think a super-French Empire is unteneable), Bavaria does something like OTL Prussia and unify Germany in XIX century.

In such a TL i see difficult a Napoleon like personage.
 
The Wittelsbachs under WoAS planned for annexing the ecclesial states in the HRE. Doing that would both make them far stronger, while also throwing the the entire electoral system into disarray. A solution could be to cut down the empire to size by throwing the Austrians, Prussians, Saxons and Hanoverian out of the empire (the Danes and Mecklenburgian would also end up outside at the same time). The result would be a smaller but more centralized empire, which would pretty much have the West German borders minus eastern Lower Saxony and Schleswig-Holstein.
 
Well, i think around modern age.
That probably requires Bavaria to acquire Austria (and probably Bohemia) in the WoAS, and for Prussia to have an anti-Miracle of the House of Brandenburg, severely curtailing their power.

Meanwhile, the Habsburgs get relegated to Hungary and Croatia.

Not sure what happens to the Austrian Netherlands under such a scenario. Maybe they get given to someone else, because Britain is going to throw a fit if France gobbles them up.
 
Well you could have three or four "Germans". For example, having Austria controlling Bohemia and Hungary, Bavaria controlling southern Germany and another power controlling northern Germany (Prussia for example). This can happen with a strong France or not, it really depends on the situation. But the three German solution is relatively simple to do compared to the other options.
 
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