A strong European Civilization like Carthage or Rome

Do you prefer a Dace or a Illyrian kingdom in the Balkans ?

  • Dace kingdom

    Votes: 11 22.0%
  • Illyrian Kingdom

    Votes: 13 26.0%
  • Mediterranean Iberia

    Votes: 12 24.0%
  • South of the Iberia

    Votes: 1 2.0%
  • Gaul kingdom

    Votes: 13 26.0%

  • Total voters
    50
  • Poll closed .
Ukraine was home to some of the largest urban centers in the world during the early Bronze Age if memory serves me right. The Black Soil there could definitely serve as the foundation of a major civilization.

It kinda depends on what you mean by "cities". The Cucuteni–Trypillia culture, which is what I believe you are referencing, had large populations but its settlements were very low density. There wasn't really a dense urban core like you see in Mesopotamia or other ancient civilizations. And they ended when the economic model stopped working and people spread out again. Maybe. The archeology isn't really clear.

But the Black Soil region has the problem of being just barely too far north for wheat and barley to be really reliable. The C-T culture probably relied on peas, for example. (Archeologists can tell chemically that something like 60-70% of their diet came from nitrogen fixing plants) And later peoples in the area were either nomadic pastoralists or relied on rye and buckwheat, which are much less productive than wheat and barley in pre-modern times.

Plus Ukraine is vulnerable to invasion from the steppe, as history has repeatedly shown.

Ultimately, I think Ukraine/European Russia cannot become a major empire unless they get some more productive agriculture. Either by domesticating something new or bringing potatoes over much earlier. (And I don't really see how that second one is accomplished without major butterflies before they even reach Eastern Europe.)
 
Whichever wins, I would really entourage you to do some research on the timeframe. Hit up JSTOR. Browse academia.edu. Buy some books if you can. That will make the story just better from every perspective.
Or hit up your local university library. Academic books are a more expensive hobby than cocaine.
 
Barcelona is the most ideal area for establishment of a city state that could evolve into an empire. Both geographically, with easily defensible passes of Iberia to the North, the location with sea coast and multiple rivers, proximity of relevant trading partners, fertile soil, temperate climate, barbarian tribes, defensibility of peninsula for later expansion, mineral wealth of it and many other benefits.
 
Gaul and Dacia are the super interesting ones in this list. Gaul because they have large and fertile plains, plus the need to protect their civilization from the other tribes to the East, all the while engage in trade and commerce with the Mediterranean. This will lead to the emergence of powerful warrior and trader institutions. Dacia is more interesting because not only will they need to trade with the Mediterranean. But they will also have to engage with the Steppes. A Bronze Age civilization in Dacia is sure to send ripples into the steppe where the Indo-European tribes exist, and are set to migrate. This civilization could somehow spread their warrior institutions to the East, along with Agriculture and cities, leading to a grand scene of emergence of new civilizations and states in those hinterlands.
 
A Bronze Age civilization in Dacia is sure to send ripples into the steppe where the Indo-European tribes exist, and are set to migrate. This civilization could somehow spread their warrior institutions to the East, along with Agriculture and cities, leading to a grand scene of emergence of new civilizations and states in those hinterlands.
Eh, no. For that you need a lot more technology than just leading Antiquity technologies.
 
resulting in two number 1s, I will have to choose between Gaul and Illyria. And I choose the Gaul, inspired by Ultima Ratio and make a Greco-Celtic state with the city of Massalia
 
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