After having seen "Richard III"...

vandevere · Mar 2, 2006

Ian Mckellen's version, I got blind-sided by a weird question.

What would happen if both Richard III and Henry VII died at Bosworth Field? Who would claim the English Crown?

Discuss...

Flocculencio · Mar 2, 2006

My God that's a brilliant production. Sorry- the English Lit student in me emerging. Of course the Alternate Historian in me thinks of interesting possibilities for an early 20th C war in a Fascist UK

I'd assume that since neither Henry nor Richard had living children at this point the nobles might well get togheter and hash out the claims of the surviving heirs. The civil war might go on unless both sides could agree to a successor.

vandevere · Mar 2, 2006

Flocculencio said:
My God that's a brilliant production. Sorry- the English Lit student in me emerging. Of course the Alternate Historian in me thinks of interesting possibilities for an early 20th C war in a Fascist UK

I'd assume that since neither Henry nor Richard had living children at this point the nobles might well get togheter and hash out the claims of the surviving heirs. The civil war might go on unless both sides could agree to a successor.

of course, there's always the possibility that the Princes in the Tower might still be alive. it is, after all, pretty much up in the air as to whether Richard had the killed, or whether Henry did.

So, the boys might still be alive too...

Martel · Mar 2, 2006

vandevere said:
of course, there's always the possibility that the Princes in the Tower might still be alive. it is, after all, pretty much up in the air as to whether Richard had the killed, or whether Henry did.

So, the boys might still be alive too...

I thought everyone knew that Richard Duke of York ruled for 14 years after Bosworth Field as Richard IV. With his sons Henry, Prince of Wales and Edmund Blackadder, once Duke of Edinburgh. At least until the royal family was all accidentally poisoned by Lord Percy.

Flocculencio · Mar 2, 2006

Martel said:
I thought everyone knew that Richard Duke of York ruled for 14 years after Bosworth Field as Richard IV. With his sons Henry, Prince of Wales and Edmund Blackadder, once Duke of Edinburgh. At least until the royal family was all accidentally poisoned by Lord Percy.

You know too much...you'll have to be silenced!

Keenir · Mar 2, 2006

Martel said:
I thought everyone knew that Richard Duke of York ruled for 14 years after Bosworth Field as Richard IV. With his sons Henry, Prince of Wales and Edmund Blackadder, once Duke of Edinburgh. At least until the royal family was all accidentally poisoned by Lord Percy.

and all this time, I thought Baldrick was behind it.

Major Major · Mar 2, 2006

vandevere said:
Ian Mckellen's version, I got blind-sided by a weird question.

What would happen if both Richard III and Henry VII died at Bosworth Field? Who would claim the English Crown?

Discuss...

On the Lancastrian side, it would probably be Charles Somerset, son of Henry Beaufort, Duke of Somerset who had been executed in 1464, after the battle of Hexham.

On the Yorkist side, it would be Richard's declared heir, John de la Pole, Earl of Lincoln, son of his sister Elizabeth.

Unless of course they deployed the deadly codling grinder . . .

Verence · Mar 3, 2006

Major Major said:
On the Lancastrian side, it would probably be Charles Somerset, son of Henry Beaufort, Duke of Somerset who had been executed in 1464, after the battle of Hexham.

On the Yorkist side, it would be Richard's declared heir, John de la Pole, Earl of Lincoln, son of his sister Elizabeth.

Unless of course they deployed the deadly codling grinder . . .

Richard III's sidekick the Duke of Buckingham had a claim himself and although he had been killed a couple of years before his claim could be passed to his son

Verence · Mar 3, 2006

Keenir said:
and all this time, I thought Baldrick was behind it.

Baldrick's plan was to kill off The Black Adder's hired muscle The Black Seal but Percy accidentally poisoned everyone's wine

Wozza · Mar 3, 2006

Major Major said:
On the Lancastrian side, it would probably be Charles Somerset, son of Henry Beaufort, Duke of Somerset who had been executed in 1464, after the battle of Hexham.

On the Yorkist side, it would be Richard's declared heir, John de la Pole, Earl of Lincoln, son of his sister Elizabeth.

Unless of course they deployed the deadly codling grinder . . .

Gosh I have not seen this family tree in ages.
There is also the Countess of Salisbury, who is executed under Henry VII or VIII.
There are a few Plantagenets still knocking around.

WFHermans · Mar 3, 2006

(Grabs Plantagenet family tree...)

If the party of Richard III would have won: King Edward VI, son of Richard III's older brother George. He was 10 years old at that time. The perfect puppet.

If the party of "Henry VII" would have won: Probably the same.

Also possible they would have settled for a Queen, the sister of the two murdered princes. She would have been Elizabeth I and was 17 at that time. And maybe the princes (or one of them) were still alive then. There seems to be no contemporary evidence they were killed by Richard III.

Verence · Mar 6, 2006

WFHermans said:
(Grabs Plantagenet family tree...)

If the party of Richard III would have won: King Edward VI, son of Richard III's older brother George. He was 10 years old at that time. The perfect puppet.

There seems to be no contemporary evidence they were killed by Richard III.

You mean Edward, Earl of Warwick?? The one who both Lambert Simnel and Perkin Warbeck pretended to be?? According to some historians his mental state was such that he "wasn't playing with a full deck" which combined with his young age, would as you say would make him the ideal puppet. However, who would be the puppetmaster?? One of Richard III's sidekicks? Lovell?. As for the Princes in the Tower. I've never thought that they were killed by Richard, Buckingham or Henry VII are my favoured suspects