AHC: The Republic of North Dakota

Sicarius

FACT: The highest point in the state of North Dakota is called "White Butte".
FACT: hahaha
FACT: In 1934 North Dakota Governor William "Wild Bill" Langer, upon being removed from office by the state Supreme Court, locked himself in the governor's mansion, declared martial law, and declared North Dakota independent.

Obviously, this didn't stick long, or more accurately at all anywhere outside of the man's office. But what if it had!? Not necessarily due to this Langer incident, that dude was clearly batshit and obviously his career was ruin- what? He was re-elected in 1936? North Dakota. Come on, guys.

Anywho, here's the challenge: Make North Dakota, with a POD past its 1889 admission to the Union, secede and become an independent nation - in reality, not just some crazy dude's bullshit - for however long. Can North Dakota leave in a South Carolina type situation, hoping other states will follow? Sure. Can it leave as part of a general US collapse? Okay. But make it first! Let's make North Dakota a trendsetter in something besides high speed limits!
 

vultan

AND he was elected to Senate, lol.:D
I dunno, maybe an Anglo-American War in which America is totally crushed. Canada is not willing to take in a hoard of hostile Americans, however, so several border states in the Great Plains are set up as demilitarized neutral states.
 

The Marauder

A Communist revolution by the 1920's in the United States, a severely stabilized union by that time, forces disgruntled workers into arms in the urban areas. The rural states between the coasts however become split between upholding the Union and seceding. North Dakota secedes and for it's 7 year life span, does well compared to other states. Eventually, after repeated attack from U.S. forces and a firm socialist rebel army, the ruling body of the Republic of North Dakota is dissolved and effectively brought into the American Union of Socialist States.
 

HeavyWeaponsGuy

Banned
The Marauder said:
A Communist revolution by the 1920's in the United States, a severely stabilized union by that time, forces disgruntled workers into arms in the urban areas. The rural states between the coasts however become split between upholding the Union and seceding. North Dakota secedes and for it's 7 year life span, does well compared to other states. Eventually, after repeated attack from U.S. forces and a firm socialist rebel army, the ruling body of the Republic of North Dakota is dissolved and effectively brought into the American Union of Socialist States.
Click to expand...

I think this touches on what you require to make any minute, one-off thing like a nation of North Dakota surviving as an independent country despite being surrounded on three sides by US territory, and the Canadians won't have much reason to sweep in to help unless they're really, really itching to pick a fight with the United States.

The problem with things like this is that the Civil War set the precedent that the Federal government Will. Not. Allow. Secession. Period. Anyone who attempts to secede from the Union outside of the Union allowing them to do so for whatever reason (i.e. if the US had annexed some part of Central America that they couldn't hold onto any more) is pretty much SOL because at that point the troops are going in to squash the rebels, and North Dakota does not have nearly enough things to stop the US from taking it eventually, only an issue of how long it can delay the inevitable. Breakaway states that are normally impossible but are supported by outside assistance can be done, (i.e. Taiwan remaining as it is rather than a full-on part of China with US help) but there's only one problem: it is completely and totally landlocked, cut off from almost all foreign support and aid material, save through Canada, and attempting to help a rebellious US state resist American attempts to retake it is a really easy way to provoke an American invasion of Canada.

By the time you have sufficiently weakened the US government to the point where it cannot stop North Dakota of all places from leaving the Union then the federal government is going to have WAY bigger problems than it has now...

But to create a situation like that in the US would require a PoD so radical as to make the US literally unrecognizable in its history. A world in which the United States is anemic, backwards, or both would change so many things in world history as to make the entire world even more unrecognizable than the United States. Who fills the power vacuum? Germany? Britain? Resurgent France or Russia? Could really be a lot of people, and world affairs will work differently without America's presence as the factory of the world.
 

Rooster Cogburn

POD: Theodore Roosevelt decides to stay in North Dakota and uses his financial and political connections back east to become very influential in the territory then state. Eventually, he becomes the Governor and a popular one at that. He's bored one day since there's no woodland creatures for him to strangle so he tells his friend "Fuck this, lets make a country." So he calls for a random parade featuring a flag people have never seen before; a blue background with a large hand in the center flashing its middle finger. And at the end of the parade, Roosevelt reads a speech proclaiming the new Republic of North Dakota. His main reason for secession? Because he felt like. When he's done, the crowd is stunned and silence.

This silence is broken when a guy in the back of the crowd yells out "Can you do you that?" So Roosevelt calmly walks off the platform and slowly makes his way through the crowd to the man. When he reaches the person who dared question him, he calmly but sternly said "Yes" and proceeded to give the man a falcon punch to the throat. The crowd just shrugged, nodded their heads, and started to cheer, lifting up Roosevelt onto their shoulders and proclaiming him the new President.

When word reached Washington, newly elected President McKinley was furious! He was like, "How dare that punk-ass bitch try to secede! I'm gonna whoop his ass!" He quickly dialed the phone to set up a meeting with the General-in-Chief of the army. Then, minutes later, McKinley's secretary arrived with the story of the falcon punch to the throat Roosevelt had given the upstart observer. Instinctively putting his hand over his throat and gulping, McKinley thought for a moment.

Then he said "Alright, I'll let it slide this one time. But anyone else tries to do it, they're dead! In fact, send an army into Nebraska just to keep up appearances." Shaking his fist in the air, he called out "That'll teach those corn huskers what happens when they don't vote for me! Damn Bryan and his meddling farmers......." Sighing, his assistant said in a depressed voice "Yes sir, right away sir." [1] And he walked out of the room. McKinley sat back at his desk and continued to do whatever important things he happened to do that year which no one really cares about.

[1] And Nebraska never voted Democrat again....


And there you have it my friend. A logical and completely possible way North Dakota could have seceded from the union and become a separate country :D
 
Last edited:
DanMcCollum

DanMcCollum

Rooster Cogburn said:
POD: Theodore Roosevelt decides to stay in North Dakota and uses his financial and political connections back east to become very influential in the territory then state. Eventually, he becomes the Governor and a popular one at that. He's bored one day since there's no woodland creatures for him to strangle so he tells his friend "Fuck this, lets make a country." So he calls for a random parade featuring a flag people have never seen before; a blue background with a large hand in the center flashing its middle finger. And at the end of the parade, Roosevelt reads a speech proclaiming the new Republic of North Dakota. His main reason for secession? Because he felt like. When he's done, the crowd is stunned and silence.

This silence is broken when a guy in the back of the crowd yells out "Can you do you that?" So Roosevelt calmly walks off the platform and slowly makes his way through the crowd to the man. When he reaches the person who dared question him, he calmly but sternly said "Yes" and proceeded to give the man a falcon punch to the throat. The crowd just shrugged, nodded their heads, and started to cheer, lifting up Roosevelt onto their shoulders and proclaiming him the new President.

When word reached Washington, newly elected President McKinley was furious! He was like, "How dare that punk-ass bitch try to secede! I'm gonna whoop his ass!" He quickly dialed the phone to set up a meeting with the General-in-Chief of the army. Then, minutes later, McKinley's secretary arrived with the story of the falcon punch to the throat Roosevelt had given the upstart observer. Instinctively putting his hand over his throat and gulping, McKinley thought for a moment.

Then he said "Alright, I'll let it slide this one time. But anyone else tries to do it, they're dead! In fact, send an army into Nebraska just to keep up appearances." Shaking his fist in the air, he called out "That'll teach those corn huskers what happens when they don't vote for me! Damn Bryan and his meddling farmers......." Sighing, his assistant said in a depressed voice "Yes sir, right away sir." [1] And he walked out of the room. McKinley sat back at his desk and continued to do whatever important things he happened to do that year which no one really cares about.

[1] And Nebraska never voted Democrat again....


And there you have it my friend. A logical and completely possible way North Dakota could have seceded from the union and become a separate country :D
Click to expand...

As someone who has lived in North Dakota for the past four years, and loved TR, you have made me very happy :)
 

DG Valdron

Maybe its simpler than that. Suppose, in the middle of the depression, North Dakota declares itself an independent republic. Takes no military action whatsoever, respects Federal property rights, and simply takes its case to the Supreme Court arguing a legitimate right of secession, as opposed to military insurrection.

Supposing that as part of taking its case to the Supreme Court, North Dakota argues for and successfully gains an Injunctive Relief, enjoining the Federal Government from taking military action against the State of North Dakota.

At this point, North Dakota has provoked a constitutional crisis, during which it exercts authority as an independent nation. Want to screw things up? It applies for League of Nations membership, sends out ambassadors to other nations.

Remember that the Depression is a pretty screwed up time in American history. Roosevelt's got the new deal starting up, but the Supreme Court is bitchslapping him right and left. He tries to pack the Court, but fails. Half of congress is dead certain he's a communist and class traitor. There's the so called Business Plot. The State's rights movement is strong. The Klan is stronger.

Now, there's not a hope in hell that North Dakota could stand militarily against the rest of the United States. So logic dictates that they don't even try that route. Dead certain failure.

But look at it this way. There's huge downsides for Roosevelt if he sends American troops in to overthrow a state government.... Especially when that state government is not taking any violent action and playing to the crowds.

There's a lot of knives out for Roosevelt, looking for any opportunity. How many Commissions did Congress have into Pearl Harbour, looking for any scrap to hang FDR with? Two? Three? In wartime no less.

A peacetime crisis that happens out of the blue? If they play it right, they can stalemate Roosevelt for a time, enlist Roosevelt's enemies, and drag it out for a few years.

It wouldn't necessarily be full independence, but a period of ambiguous legal standing and virtual autonomy for some purposes.

Max time? Probably till December, 1941, at which point international issues and WWII take over, and suddenly a bunch of backwoods malcontents aren't going to be able to play games.

Most likely, however, no more than two or three years, either they run out of string, or someone does something real stupid.
 
Last edited:

DG Valdron

Actually, I could see this happening. This was the age of Barnum and Bailey, all kinds of showmanship, weird crazes like Marathon Dance sessions, Newsreels.

I can actually see this going all sorts of directions, ranging from hucksters of all sorts getting in on merchandising, the Governor trying to use the secession to extort all sorts of benefits out of the Federal government as a condition to re-entry.

It's the sort of thing that would bring every single crazy out of the woodwork, and leave sensible people totally flummoxed.

It would be like the Marx brothers actually taking over a country.
 

Unknown

I can see one popping up in the Protect and Survive universe...but it wouldn't last very long (the ICBM fields around Minot and Grand Forks would get almost as hammered as Western Nebraska).
 

Dathi THorfinnsson

DValdron said:
Maybe its simpler than that. Suppose, in the middle of the depression, North Dakota declares itself an independent republic. Takes no military action whatsoever, respects Federal property rights, and simply takes its case to the Supreme Court arguing a legitimate right of secession, as opposed to military insurrection.

Supposing that as part of taking its case to the Supreme Court, North Dakota argues for and successfully gains an Injunctive Relief, enjoining the Federal Government from taking military action against the State of North Dakota.

At this point, North Dakota has provoked a constitutional crisis, during which it exercts authority as an independent nation. Want to screw things up? It applies for League of Nations membership, sends out ambassadors to other nations.
Click to expand...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._White
says that the Supreme Court ruled in 1868 that secession was illegal. Unlikely to change their opinion now.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top
Top