In a world where Hitler died in the trenches of WW1 or otherwise never came to power, who would take his place as the "Great Historical Evil" of the 20th century? I'd personally go for the Japanese Empire due to their antics in China like Unit 731 and the Nanking Massacre.
Alternate "Great Historical Evil"
- Thread starter Whiteshore
- Start date
There was that genocide in one of the German colonies before WWI where the Germans were chucking the natives to the sharks. They slaughtered thousands.
Depends on if Japan still gets nuked. Their atrocities tend to be forgotten because they got the ultimate punishment. If you butterfly away Hitler, a lot of German scientists stay home and we might not develop the atomic bomb. We also (hopefully) avert the Holocaust which I assume is the premesis of the question.
Without Hitler as the enemy, Stalin is no longer needed as an ally and becomes the archvillian. Japan's atrocities would fly below the radar, as the West and especially the US wouldn't give much thought to what happened in China and Korea unless it affected us.
Without Hitler as the enemy, Stalin is no longer needed as an ally and becomes the archvillian. Japan's atrocities would fly below the radar, as the West and especially the US wouldn't give much thought to what happened in China and Korea unless it affected us.
Obergruppenführer Smith
Banned
No, the crimes are only forgotten by us in the West because the region was far from us. It's just like how most East Asians don't give much thought about the Holocaust when compared to Japanese atrocities.
Well, the Japanese had some sick actions like "who can behead the most Chinese" competitions between IJA soldiers, rape chambers (the "comfort women"), mass human experimentation by the military (Unit 731), and a "Three All" policy. In addition, Japan is likely to fall foul of the Western Powers like OTL and so get curb-stomped by the US and friends, so, there's also the "they got defeated" part as well.
Obergruppenführer Smith
Banned
....... What? WHAT?!?!?!
So the at least 18 million deaths in China (never mind the craziness in SEA) or the 50% depopulation during the Free State period are nothing compared to relatively tame purges and imprisonment of the Soviets?
Thank you for providing proof of just how utterly ignorant we are of things outside our immediate region.
Obergruppenführer Smith
Banned
Among other things, you do realize that casualties are not the same as deaths, and that 15 million is over the existence of the Soviets and includes the deaths of the Russian civil war?
I mean, nice try, but frankly the way you just brushed aside intensified death rates over a shorter period of time (only stopped due to outside intervention) to bash the Soviets is really deliberate blindness.
Another thing which probably makes the Japanese Empire worse than the USSR is that the IJA carried out some depraved actions towards conquered peoples and enemy POWs as well.
Insider
Banned
Thanks. I took the low estimates. The Russian Civil War figures are deaths, my mistake, and they could be well attributed to Communists in most part. The white terror never become so prevalent, because they were loosing the territories quickly. Higher estimates go as high as 60 million deaths. Arguably the high count is adding WWII deaths. (which was mismanaged by communists, but the real perpetrators were Germans, so the figures should be split). On the other hand we had state of Manchuko and other collaborators, and whole warlord era which was not caused by Japanese, but they were quite giddy to keep China torn apart. Where their casualties go? Also we have this singular decision where Chinese republicans flooded the vast areas of the country to stop Japanese. The civil casualties were appalling, over half of million people drowned or died of exposure. Japanese were delayed, but I don't know if it cost them a platoon. On which account these poor souls suppose to go?
We can bash each other with gruesome statistics to no end and interpret deaths on our advantage. But you have proven a point, Japanese were as bad as Soviets and deserve second place in hell ex equo, after Hitler and his brown mass.
It was something I read about years ago in The Daily Mail and was something that popped into me head when I saw this thread.
https://quod.lib.umich.edu/j/jii/47...y-and-its-postcolonial?rgn=main;view=fulltext
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/29/world/africa/germany-genocide-namibia-holocaust.html?_r=0
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...es-to-atone-for-forgotten-genocide-in-namibia
Deleted member 94680
Right, yeah, the Herero Genocide. Plenty have of heard of it, it's the "feeding to sharks" bit that threw me off. They used a camp on Shark Island but didn't go all Emilio Largo on them. They used far more mundane methods and the numbers of dead pale in comparison to Belgian Congo for instance.
Still, it shouldn't be forgotten, that's for sure.
Much as I would like to agree, the specter of communism looms larger. I mean, Japan was not completely opposed to the existing world order of the time, compared to the Reds. The Japanese only want their slice of the pie, so to speak.
The great evil of the 20th century would not change. It is still communism Joseph Stalin and Mao ze Dong, who combined probably at least 60-70 million people, even more depending on how you count WWII. With Hitler dead WWII if it occurs is against communism. Communism becomes an even great evil then OTL.
I don't think a Central Powers victory would butterfly away Japanese atrocities in China and East Asia.