Europe, 2005

Raymann · Apr 11, 2005

Here's a map of Europe in 2005, what do ya'll think?

Notes: no state shown has any extra-european territory except for islands and the such. Russia still has Central Asia and most of South America speaks Protugese.

csa945 · Apr 11, 2005

Looks like a medieval POD -- the Hellenic Republic is some remnant of the Byzantine Empire that held out against the Ottomans.

POD: An Eastern equivalent of Tours somwhere between Ankara and Constantinople?

William the Conqueror holds on to territory on the northern French coast after invading Britain. (???)

Beyond that, I don't know.

Raymann · Apr 12, 2005

Close with Britian but the Greece you see comes from a Greek victory in the 2nd Greco-Turkish War.

MUC · Apr 12, 2005

The Greeks go for Constantinople, rather than for Ankara.

Faeelin · Apr 12, 2005

The POD probably is medieval; aragon was, in theory, a vassal of France up until 12--, so the POD has to be around then.

Portugal also swallowed up Leon.

Faeelin · Apr 12, 2005

Raymann said:
Close with Britian but the Greece you see comes from a Greek victory in the 2nd Greco-Turkish War.

Which was when?

Is this another one of those timelines that involves the ethnic cleansing of millions of people?

Kostja · Apr 12, 2005

Faeelin said:
Which was when?

Is this another one of those timelines that involves the ethnic cleansing of millions of people?

Actually, if the Ottoman Empire doesn't conquer the Balkans, exactly such an ethnic cleansing is prevented.

Raymann · Apr 12, 2005

Alright, the POD in the West is no Joan of Arc. France loses the 100 Years War and doesn't get close to taking back Normandy. England expands along the border and with earlier incorporations of the rest of Great Britian and Ireland, has the people to defend it.

The Greco-Turkish War I was refering to is similar to the 2nd one fought in the OTL, Greece isn't pushed back though and the war ends when the Turkish line collapses and civil war breaks out.

Othniel · Apr 12, 2005

Europe is going through a Republican age?

Raymann · Apr 12, 2005

Bosnia and Serbia are the only dictatorships. The UK, Poland, Portugal, Castile, and Italy are constitutional monarchies. With the exception of the UK though, the soverigns here have a bit more power with the ability to affect some excuative power.

Othniel · Apr 12, 2005

It would be intresting to see how this effected colonazation.

Raymann · Apr 12, 2005

For former colonies, there is the:
-United States of North America (includes the carriabbean)
-The Brazilian Union of South America,
-The Commonwealth of New Lavita (Southern end of Africa)
-United Central America States
-United Islamic Republic (Libya, Egypt, Sudan, and Saudi Arabia, 'all former British colonies')
-Israel (Poland and Germany saw the zionist movement as getting big and decided to expel all their Jews in the 1930's. Over the next 20 years, 8 million jews go to Israal which eventually includes OTL Israel, Lebenon, and Jorden with parts of Syria)
-Republic of West Africa (Union of French colonies)
-Commonwealth of Australia (Australia, New Zeland, Papa New Guenia, New Calidonia)
-Commonwealth of India (all of British controled India)

States ourside of Europe never taken over:

-Ethopia (the entire horn of African, Kenya, Tanzania, and Uganda)
-Northern China/Southern China (never any communists but the North is a monarchy)
-Republic of Japan (occupied by the US but never annexed)
-Empire of Thailand (all of Indo-China and Malasyia)

csa945 · Apr 12, 2005

Raymann said:
Bosnia and Serbia are the only dictatorships. The UK, Poland, Portugal, Castile, and Italy are constitutional monarchies. With the exception of the UK though, the soverigns here have a bit more power with the ability to affect some excuative power.

What about the Empire of Germany? Is it actually a republic?

Othniel · Apr 12, 2005

csa945 said:
What about the Empire of Germany? Is it actually a republic?

Maybe it is controlled by the Saxony Electocate?

Raymann · Apr 12, 2005

my bad, I though I included it in the constitutional monarchy?

Quick question, the UK is called a constitutional monarchy but it has no constitution? What is it?

Wozza · Apr 13, 2005

I am not sure the death of Joan of Arc will prevent the War of the Roses,
under which circumstances it will be ery difficult for the English to hold France

also if France is weak can they hold down Aragon? And why does the Union of Kalmar last five hundred years?
If Spain is never united is the Hapsburg empire ever formed? If so how are the Turks stopped?
These and many questions spring to mind
I am not sure this map adds up I am afraid
Keen to hear more about the propsed timeline for it though

Raymann · Apr 13, 2005

Well I don’t know if I’m going to write a TL for this but I did think it through:

Without Joan of Arc, the war stalemates for the French and they don’t take Rouen, the capitol of Normandy and there is no Battle of Formigny to end it all.

The House of Lancaster was supported by Southeast England and European Britain so from the French perspective, their defenses were never weakened. Normans (the whole coast was called Normandy) were supportive of England even before the war with the French so their support made defending the territory that much easier.

The Kalmar Union stays intact and becomes closer after Gustav Vasa (the guy who dissolved it) is killed. The union is constantly in conflict with Russia over Estonia and becomes an official federation when they lose the Great Northern War.

Unlike OTL, Aragon and Castile went to war right after they defeated the Muslims (Columbus was sent right before that). France and Portugal both took advantage of that and annexed territory (Castile got the last laugh though when America was discovered).

The Hapsburgs started off in Central Europe but in any case, Spain was unified (what was left of it) and so were the houses. So Austria still gets a Hapsburg emperor.

The Turks get pushed back OTL but after WWI Austria still collapses and parts are annexed by Germany.

WWI here is Germany, Austria, and Italy, vs. Britain, Poland, and Kalmar (Italy joins to fight Britain over African colonies). Russia is busy in Central Asia in an unofficial war with Britain and the United States is busy adding the word “North” to its name. The War ends with a stalemate but some territory is changed hands; Britain gets some more of the Netherlands. Germany gets Schleswig-Holstein, and Poland gets a scrap of West Prussia. Italy gets nothing.

As I said earlier, Greece goes to war with soon after WWI and wins grabbing much of Anatolia.

There is no WWII but Japan and the US still go at it and the result is OTL