Only 2 x AIM-9L in the Falklands, unless the twin launch rail has been introduced earlier ITTL and I've missed it :) .

Perhaps I should have chosen the wording more carefully, using 'maximum', rather than 'standard'.

That being said, the twin rail was trialled & cleared by XZ440 in April '82 in support of Corporate & the fitment was available for use 'Down South'. There's a Paul Crickmore pic of these trials on page seventeen of Sea Harrier FRS 1 vs Mirage III/Dagger: South Atlantic 1982 By Doug Dildy & Pablo Calcaterra ;).

Screenshot (5) by Frank Judge, on Flickr

EDIT: A little poking around reveals the trials were carried out concurrently with AIM-9L integration & flown by the same pilot, Lt Cdr Taylor Scott (formerly of Sea Vixen & 'Simon's Sircus' fame), with additional sorties flown by Jim Giles.
 
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In the end knowing that she would be held responsible for whatever happened anyway the PM was the one who decided the issue. Turning to Admiral Fieldhouse she simply said
sink them.

exactly the right decision. I don't understand the uproar this decision created in the real world
 
exactly the right decision. I don't understand the uproar this decision created in the real world

I beleive that HMG warned the Argentines via their Swiss Embassy on or about the 23rd April that the Exclusion zone related only to Neutrals and not the Argentine armed forces.

The idea that the Argentine warships could safely 'mince about' just outside the 'exclusion zone' and attack when they felt like it and then be utterly shocked when they get attacked is just...nope I dont have the words!!!

I think what would have helped if not the situation but the confusion and ignorance I have seen since is if HMG had openly told them at the time "We will 'sink burn or take' any Argentine Vessel (or aircraft for that matter) that we find anywhere! You have been fairly warned"

Problem with that is there was a lot of political manouvering going on during the last 2 weeks of April and such an agressive attitude might not have played well.
 
I saved this from a discussion a long time ago on another board.

Freedman provides the text of the announcement on 28th April:

From 11.00GMT on 30 April 1982, a Total Exclusion Zone will be established around the Falkland Islands. The outer limit of this Zone is the same as for the Maritime Exclusion Zone established on the 12 April 1982, namely a circle of 200 nautical miles radius from latitude 51 degrees 40 minutes South, 59 degrees 20 minutes West. From the time indicated, the Exclusion Zone will apply not only to Argentine warships and Argentine naval auxiliaries but also to any other ship, whether naval or merchant vessel, which is operating in support of the illegal occupation of the Falkland Islands by Argentine forces. The Exclusion Zone will also apply to any aircraft, whether military or civil, which is operating in support of the illegal operation. Any ship and any aircraft whether military or civil which is found within this Zone without due authority from the Ministry of Defence in London will therefore be regarded as hostile and liable to be attacked by British forces. Also from the time indicated, Port Stanley airport will be closed; and any aircraft on the ground in the Falkland Islands will be regarded as present in support of the illegal occupation and accordingly is liable to attack. These measures are without prejudice to the right of the United Kingdom to take whatever additional measures may be needed to take whatever additional measures may be needed in exercise of its right of self defence, under Article 51 of the UN Charter.


The TEZ was a statement warning everybody to vacate a radius of 200 miles of the Falkland Islands.

The TEZ set out a presumption that anything within the zone is a combatant and therefore liable to be sunk or shot down.

The TEZ did not say that only those vessels and aircraft in the TEZ would be intercepted, merely that anything within it was presumed to be hostile.

Therefore anything outside of the TEZ was not presumed to be hostile but could be hostile depending on the tactics. If it were hostile then it was liable to be intercepted.

The statement expressly refers to Article 51 which says:

Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of self-defence shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security.



The Security Council had not, by the time of the sinking of the Belgrano, taken "measures necessary to maintain international peace and security", in part because we (and probably the US) would have vetoed any such measures... The UK had been attacked (the Falklands being considered a UK dependency) and accordingly it could take any measures it deemed necessary for self-defence. The Belgrano was considered to pose a threat to the Task Force as a whole, which would, in turn, have prejudiced the defending of the UK interests following an attack. It was, therefore, within Article 51 and so lawful.

The TEZ has been seriously misunderstood. What it did was set out a presumption not a ruling. Combatants outside of the TEZ were still fair game because International Law recognises the right to take military action and whilst a State can limit the remit of its response (e.g. through international instruments (Geneva Convention etc) or through individual decisions (TEZ)) this limitation was not operative here for the reasons set out above.



The TEZ, as noted above, did not restrict the engagement of forces outside of the TEZ and the South Atlantic was, in fact, open season if a threat was posed. The TEZ simply said that anything inside was a threat unless the contrary could be proven (very quickly).

End result. The Belgrano was legitimately and lawfully sunk.



In addition, the official history, volume 2, contains the following:

“On 23 April a confidential warning was conveyed to the Argentines via the Swiss. This was delivered in Buenos Aires at 1730 (Local) on 23 April. Parsons recommended that the text should be circulated in the UN lest Argentina do so first, citing it as evidence of Britain’s aggressive intentions. Whitehall followed this advice and at the same time announced in London the fact of the warning:

In announcing the establishment of a maritime exclusion zone around the Falkland Islands, HMG made it clear that this measure was without prejudice to the right of the UK to take whatever additional measures may be needed in the exercise of its right of self-defence under Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. In this connection HMG now wishes to make clear that any approach on the part of Argentine warships, including submarines, naval auxiliaries or military aircraft, which could amount to a threat to interfere with the mission of British Forces in the South Atlantic will encounter the appropriate response. All Argentine aircraft including civil aircraft engaged in surveillance of these British forces will be regarded as hostile and are liable to be dealt with accordingly.”


Interviews conducted by Martin Middlebrook for his book, The Fight For The Malvinas, indicated that Argentine Naval officers understood the intent of the message was to indicate that any ships operating near the exclusion zone could be attacked. Argentine Rear-Admiral Allara who was in charge of the task force that the Belgrano was part of said, "After that message of 23 April, the entire South Atlantic was an operational theatre for both sides. We, as professionals, said it was just too bad that we lost the Belgrano". Also the rules of engagement were changed specifically to permit the engagement of the Belgrano outside the exclusion zone before the sinking.

The British declared a 200-mile 'exclusion zone' around the islands, and sent submarines to the area to enforce the blockade and prevent the Argentines from landing more troops and equipment on the islands. The public often misunderstands, thinking that ships outside the 'exclusion zone' were save from attack, but this is not the case: ANY ship or plane in the zone WOULD be attacked without question, while ships and aircraft outside the zone COULD be attacked. The British clarified this position when they used the Swiss Embassy to warn the Argentine government that any ship or aircraft that threatened the British task force would be attacked even if it was outside the war zone.

The whole argument over the Belgrano is down to poor journalism.

Some claim the Belgrano was not a legitimate target, being outside the "exclusion zone" and not actually heading for it, either.

Except this argument misses one vital point, that wasn't what the TEZ was about. The TEZ was a warning that any ship or aircraft within the TEZ would be engaged without warning regardless of nationality. In other words it was a bloody big "don't go there".

The TEZ was not, nor was it ever, designed to limit actions against enemy forces. International law quite clearly states that force can be used against an aggressor anywhere in the world. If the UK government wanted to it could have legitimately waited outside of the Argenitinian port and sunk the Belgrano within its own territorial limits. That would not be an infringement of either International Law or the self-imposed rules of engagement.

The Belgrano was an enemy combatant; it was perceived as a threat and was sunk. The only mistake the UK government made was, when all hell broke loose, was to just not turn around and say, "hey, he's an enemy". Does anyone seriously think Belgrano would not fire on a British ship if it encountered one coming down from Ascension Islands? No, they would have been perfectly entitled to and the RN was entitled to, and rightly did, sink Belgrano.

To recap: enemy combatant ships could be sunk anywhere. The TEZ was that anything inside the TEZ would be sunk without warning. The Belgrano was another example of politicians fucking up a very simple proposition. If they had told the simple truth nobody would have cared.

You don't need to have a war to sink enemy combatants: read the UN Charter and any basic International Law book - there is a difference between war and armed conflict but the UN Charter specifically permits action to be taken to recover sovereign territory (and this is the provision the UK government used instead of declaring war, a point made at the time of the conflict) and it does not limit the places at which enemy combatants were sunk.

They presumably did not sink them at anchor because of the geopolitical situation which was delicate at the time, but that does not, nor did it ever, mean that enemy combatants would only be sunk within the TEZ.


The whole ‘Belgrano was heading away issue’ is also lousy journalism; it doesn’t take long to turn around and make a speed run the other way. Weeks before being ordered to the South Atlantic, Admiral Sandy Woodward had commanded a destroyer and frigate force that briefly operated in the Arabian Sea with a USN aircraft carrier, the Coral Sea, and its battle group. Admiral Woodward and the American commander decided to conduct a training exercise in which the Coral Sea would take position at the centre of a circle with a 200-mile perimeter. The British group would attempt to penetrate the carrier's screen and make a mock attack on her with French Exocet missiles carried by some of the RN ships. If successful, the RN would theoretically win the engagement.

Woodward had no aircraft to help him find the American ships or to fight off attacking American carrier-based aircraft. Also, on the day of the exercise, visibility was unlimited as far as the horizon, so the British ships had nowhere to hide from the American planes. Despite these disadvantages, Admiral Woodward managed to circle the outside of the defensive perimeter. After sunset he turned on all the lights of his ship and ran straight for the carrier, disguising his guided-missile destroyer as an Indian cruise liner. Before the Americans fully realized what he was about, he announced the simulated launch of four Exocets. The Coral Sea was dead as far as the exercise was concerned. Now there is not much chance of an Indian cruise liner being near the Falklands but Conqueror could easily have lost track of the Belgrano in the area they were operating.
 
Great post! Also, I think the captain of the Belgrano said in an interview a decade or two later that the Belgrano was preparing to enter the zone, just temporarily zigzagging away.
 
I saved this from a discussion a long time ago on another board.



.

Very well put.

I might save all that for the next time someone reels out the whole 'Belgrano was heading away and outside the TEZ and Britain waved the rules' nonesense - as I often get exasperated trying to counter argue.

Thanks
 
I beleive that HMG warned the Argentines via their Swiss Embassy on or about the 23rd April that the Exclusion zone related only to Neutrals and not the Argentine armed forces.

The idea that the Argentine warships could safely 'mince about' just outside the 'exclusion zone' and attack when they felt like it and then be utterly shocked when they get attacked is just...nope I dont have the words!!!

I think what would have helped if not the situation but the confusion and ignorance I have seen since is if HMG had openly told them at the time "We will 'sink burn or take' any Argentine Vessel (or aircraft for that matter) that we find anywhere! You have been fairly warned"

Problem with that is there was a lot of political manouvering going on during the last 2 weeks of April and such an agressive attitude might not have played well.

Sink, burn or take a prize:

South Atlantic

HMS Bellerophon (Type 82 Light Cruiser)


03Z24 30041982


CAPTAIN TO THE CIC - WE ARE RECEIVING AN URGENT MESSAGE FROM FLEET HEADQUARTERS!

(bzpbzpbzp bzpbzpbzp bzpbzp - RIIIIIIIIIPPPPPPPPPP)

TO: Commander HMS Bellerophon

“You are ordered to break formation with the taskforce and proceed South West at maximum speed to intercept the Argentinian Aircraft Carrier Veinticinco de Mayo. She is expected in the vicinity of -51.064702 /-57.848288 by 12Z00 02051981 You will sink, burn or take her as a prize.”.

Northwood ENDS

Captain: Yeoman Jones - Signal the flagship: Am commencing Operation Jolly Roger. GSQ.

Mr Smith, make your course 257. Set revolutions for maximum speed. Unfurl the battle ensign.

Attention: This is the Captain speaking. We have been ordered to intercept the Argentinian Aircraft Carrier Veinticinco de Mayo. I expect us to be in action by 0600 tomorrow morning. In the finest traditions of the service I intend to lay the ship alongside the enemy at pistol shot range and board her. We will take the flagship of the enemy as a prize for her Majesty. If that fails we shall burn her to the waterline. England expects that every man will do his duty. GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!

Chief Petty Officer Sinclair: Cutlasses and Pistols for every member of the boarding party and an extra tot of rum for all abroad!

Men: huzzah!

( I realise this is very silly and completely inaccurate but ;-) )
 
Sink, burn or take a prize:

South Atlantic

HMS Bellerophon (Type 82 Light Cruiser)

03Z24 30041982


CAPTAIN TO THE CIC - WE ARE RECEIVING AN URGENT MESSAGE FROM FLEET HEADQUARTERS!

(bzpbzpbzp bzpbzpbzp bzpbzp - RIIIIIIIIIPPPPPPPPPP)

TO: Commander HMS Bellerophon

“You are ordered to break formation with the taskforce and proceed South West at maximum speed to intercept the Argentinian Aircraft Carrier Veinticinco de Mayo. She is expected in the vicinity of -51.064702 /-57.848288 by 12Z00 02051981 You will sink, burn or take her as a prize.”.

Northwood ENDS

Captain: Yeoman Jones - Signal the flagship: Am commencing Operation Jolly Roger. GSQ.

Mr Smith, make your course 257. Set revolutions for maximum speed. Unfurl the battle ensign.

Attention: This is the Captain speaking. We have been ordered to intercept the Argentinian Aircraft Carrier Veinticinco de Mayo. I expect us to be in action by 0600 tomorrow morning. In the finest traditions of the service I intend to lay the ship alongside the enemy at pistol shot range and board her. We will take the flagship of the enemy as a prize for her Majesty. If that fails we shall burn her to the waterline. England expects that every man will do his duty. GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!

Chief Petty Officer Sinclair: Cutlasses and Pistols for every member of the boarding party and an extra tot of rum for all abroad!

Men: huzzah!

( I realise this is very silly and completely inaccurate but ;-) )
So Billy ruffian going to kick the carriers teeth in and take it for the prize
 
Sink, burn or take a prize:

South Atlantic

HMS Bellerophon (Type 82 Light Cruiser)

03Z24 30041982


CAPTAIN TO THE CIC - WE ARE RECEIVING AN URGENT MESSAGE FROM FLEET HEADQUARTERS!

(bzpbzpbzp bzpbzpbzp bzpbzp - RIIIIIIIIIPPPPPPPPPP)

TO: Commander HMS Bellerophon

“You are ordered to break formation with the taskforce and proceed South West at maximum speed to intercept the Argentinian Aircraft Carrier Veinticinco de Mayo. She is expected in the vicinity of -51.064702 /-57.848288 by 12Z00 02051981 You will sink, burn or take her as a prize.”.

Northwood ENDS

Captain: Yeoman Jones - Signal the flagship: Am commencing Operation Jolly Roger. GSQ.

Mr Smith, make your course 257. Set revolutions for maximum speed. Unfurl the battle ensign.

Attention: This is the Captain speaking. We have been ordered to intercept the Argentinian Aircraft Carrier Veinticinco de Mayo. I expect us to be in action by 0600 tomorrow morning. In the finest traditions of the service I intend to lay the ship alongside the enemy at pistol shot range and board her. We will take the flagship of the enemy as a prize for her Majesty. If that fails we shall burn her to the waterline. England expects that every man will do his duty. GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!

Chief Petty Officer Sinclair: Cutlasses and Pistols for every member of the boarding party and an extra tot of rum for all abroad!

Men: huzzah!

( I realise this is very silly and completely inaccurate but ;-) )

Its only silly if Cutlasses and bording axes are not issued!
 
Will we disguise ourselves as a Japanese Whaling ship?

I wonder what would be value of the carrier or the belgrano to the prize court

I can't find the price of a Brooklyn class as a new build, but the Phoenix was sold to Argentina with her sister for the bargin price of $4 million.
 
How about a Nigerian princes yacht that's having engine trouble and will pay a good bounty to the nearest capital ship that can help it
 

Riain

Banned
@PMN1 , IIRC the warning on 23 April had something to do with the Argentine AF 707 snooping around the fleet, that it would be shot down next time it appeared in range despite the TF being a week sailing away from the TEZ.
 
Apologies to @flasheart for hijacking the thread a little!

Bet the crew would be happy with with that prize money...

As would the taverns of ye olde Portsmouthe!

Don't forget longbows, to catch any argentinian fighters!

We don't need Longbows. We can use that gun Shapre's mate carries.

Will we disguise ourselves as a Japanese Whaling ship?

How about a Nigerian princes yacht that's having engine trouble and will pay a good bounty to the nearest capital ship that can help it

Doesn't matter. I have read enough Hornblower/ Aubrey to know your foreigner is easily confused by the most simple ruse de guerre implemented by the RN! I would spend more time on planning the inventory of the officers drinks cabinet tbh!
 
I came late, but am enjoying this TL. Regardless of whether or not some earlier POD is required (probably is), this is an attempt to mitigate one of the problems.

I would like to offer a few perspectives.

First, from the beginning the RN recognized that their greatest difficulty would be establishing Air and Sea Control around the Falklands. They established Sea Control pretty quickly, in part aided by the dysfunctionality of the Argentine submarine force; and HMS Conqueror sent the fleet home for the duration when she sunk the Belgrano.

So, when considering a mission-specific air group for HMS Eagle, the best use of limited space is air defense (including AEW) and ASW. The Buccaneer does not bring a "missing" capability to the party in light of Harrier availability. The AN/APS-20 is very limited, but better than the alternative (i.e., nothing), so the Gannett is necessary. While the Buccaneer would improve ground strike capability, I would only take a few along if believed necessary to counter the Argentine surface fleet. However, the SSNs would make that a low priority in my estimation.

Ponder this view of HMS Ark Royal.

Ark Royal R09.jpg


Not much room for a deck park without locking the flight deck. However, when running CAP operations, first glance looks like one could spot 6 Phantoms on deck without blocking the waist cat (which is the only one capable of launching a Phantom) or landing strip. Lacking a tanker capability, the cycles are probably going to be fairly short, perhaps 1 + 30 (90 minutes) as a guess (want to maintain a good amount of combat fuel since the fighters will need to engage multiple targets when the enemy comes). That's really not too bad since the Argentines don't really pose a night threat. So, roughly 10 hours of flight ops per day (8 hours + twilight), and one can subtract flight time from the Argentine air bases from the CAP period. So, possibly 6 cycles per day??

A squadron of 12 (if they maintain 100% mission readiness) could sustain a 4-aircraft CAP, and 4 on alert-5. Some of the enemy strikes (early on) were in the 30-aircraft range, so that is probably an absolute minimum package. Really, 16-20 mission capable aircraft is much better. Hitting the attackers hard in the early phases would probably have a very positive impact (pour encourager les autres) - perhaps 4 up and 6 on alert-5 sends the proper message. For the sake of argument, let's assume the squadron personnel can accomplish their maintenance time during the night.

If it was up to me I would put 20 x Phantom, 5 x Gannett AEW and as many Sea Kings as I could fit on the HMS Eagle. Any Sea King not flying an ASW mission can assist with logistical and operational lift requirements. No room for the Buccaneer without compromising air defense.

IMHO that argues for cramming every Phantom possible onto HMS Eagle. Relative to carrying the Buccaneer, also remember that the Phantom is a very capable strike fighter. If the enemy launches two strikes per day and each strike is met with 10 aircraft, that gets you in the range of 36 fighter sorties per day. Add another 5 x AEW and 20-24 ASW sorties and I am guessing one is at or above the maximum sustainable sortie rate for a carrier this size.

I would offer that the presence of HMS Eagle allows one to replace the Harrier GR.3 squadron on HMS Hermes with helicopters. Keep the 28 Sea Harriers deployed on Hermes and Invincible to augment the AAW package (between the Phantom CAP envelope and the close-in missiles) and provide CAS. Now one can employ four "real" layers to the air defense - Phantom CAP - Sea Dart - Sea Harrier - short range missiles. Even if the AN/APS-20 only extends the detection range by 50-75nm past the Type 42 detection range, that could be very significant. The Argentines were not flying at wave height, so maybe even 100nm extra detection range? Perhaps Sheffield and Coventry survive as well.
Logistics for the ground force was the second major issue throughout the campaign. Improved ITTL if Atlantic Conveyor does not go down, but still insufficient. During OTL the lack of amphibious ships and landing craft resulted in a plan to use "sea-based logistics" (SBL) for part of the package (a pretty wild dream considering the available capabilities). In any event, SBL requires more helicopter support than the fleet can carry. Loss of the Chinooks on Atlantic Conveyor is often cited as creating the deficiency, but that really just made a bad situation worse. The USMC/USN has "played" with the idea of SBL in combination with STOM (ship-to-objective maneuver) for years, but many studies establish that the number of helicopters, MV-22s, etc. available is not sufficient to meet operational and logistical needs.

The ground troops had to "yomp" significant distances, and four more Chinooks would not have fixed the problem. There never were enough helicopters to handle either ship-to-shore or operational requirements, let alone both. What the British ground troops accomplished without adequate mobility and logistical support is simply amazing IMO.

I would also caution against attributing the "published" Harrier capabilities to performance in a ship-borne role. The ski jump increases the maximum takeoff weight by ~1,000lb over a straight deck run, but the published Harrier load and range capabilities are based on 1,200' to 1,500' takeoff runs from the ground. The maximum takeoff weight from a carrier is significantly less than from the ground, meaning less fuel, ordnance and endurance. IIRC, the Sea Harriers had an ~90 minute total endurance in AAW configuration during the Falklands campaign. This severely limited their CAP operations, especially considering the forced standoff range from their launch position east of the Falklands. Don't contribute the skill of the pilots and the Argentine Air Force limitations to some "significant" AAW capability for the aircraft. An extraordinary performance by the pilots and their squadron mates (keeping them in the air) with an aircraft that has very limited capability from a "carrier" deck. An engagement within range of enemy fighter support would be very, very dangerous for an STOVL carrier equipped with Harriers.

The statement to the effect that "another six properly functioning bomb fuses" could have changed the outcome is not really hyperbole. The "Phantomized" HMS Eagle would completely alter the equation.
 
I came late, but am enjoying this TL. Regardless of whether or not some earlier POD is required (probably is), this is an attempt to mitigate one of the problems.

I would like to offer a few perspectives.

First, from the beginning the RN recognized that their greatest difficulty would be establishing Air and Sea Control around the Falklands. They established Sea Control pretty quickly, in part aided by the dysfunctionality of the Argentine submarine force; and HMS Conqueror sent the fleet home for the duration when she sunk the Belgrano.

So, when considering a mission-specific air group for HMS Eagle, the best use of limited space is air defense (including AEW) and ASW. The Buccaneer does not bring a "missing" capability to the party in light of Harrier availability. The AN/APS-20 is very limited, but better than the alternative (i.e., nothing), so the Gannett is necessary. While the Buccaneer would improve ground strike capability, I would only take a few along if believed necessary to counter the Argentine surface fleet. However, the SSNs would make that a low priority in my estimation.

Ponder this view of HMS Ark Royal.

View attachment 399952

Not much room for a deck park without locking the flight deck. However, when running CAP operations, first glance looks like one could spot 6 Phantoms on deck without blocking the waist cat (which is the only one capable of launching a Phantom) or landing strip. Lacking a tanker capability, the cycles are probably going to be fairly short, perhaps 1 + 30 (90 minutes) as a guess (want to maintain a good amount of combat fuel since the fighters will need to engage multiple targets when the enemy comes). That's really not too bad since the Argentines don't really pose a night threat. So, roughly 10 hours of flight ops per day (8 hours + twilight), and one can subtract flight time from the Argentine air bases from the CAP period. So, possibly 6 cycles per day??

A squadron of 12 (if they maintain 100% mission readiness) could sustain a 4-aircraft CAP, and 4 on alert-5. Some of the enemy strikes (early on) were in the 30-aircraft range, so that is probably an absolute minimum package. Really, 16-20 mission capable aircraft is much better. Hitting the attackers hard in the early phases would probably have a very positive impact (pour encourager les autres) - perhaps 4 up and 6 on alert-5 sends the proper message. For the sake of argument, let's assume the squadron personnel can accomplish their maintenance time during the night.

If it was up to me I would put 20 x Phantom, 5 x Gannett AEW and as many Sea Kings as I could fit on the HMS Eagle. Any Sea King not flying an ASW mission can assist with logistical and operational lift requirements. No room for the Buccaneer without compromising air defense.

IMHO that argues for cramming every Phantom possible onto HMS Eagle. Relative to carrying the Buccaneer, also remember that the Phantom is a very capable strike fighter. If the enemy launches two strikes per day and each strike is met with 10 aircraft, that gets you in the range of 36 fighter sorties per day. Add another 5 x AEW and 20-24 ASW sorties and I am guessing one is at or above the maximum sustainable sortie rate for a carrier this size.

I would offer that the presence of HMS Eagle allows one to replace the Harrier GR.3 squadron on HMS Hermes with helicopters. Keep the 28 Sea Harriers deployed on Hermes and Invincible to augment the AAW package (between the Phantom CAP envelope and the close-in missiles) and provide CAS. Now one can employ four "real" layers to the air defense - Phantom CAP - Sea Dart - Sea Harrier - short range missiles. Even if the AN/APS-20 only extends the detection range by 50-75nm past the Type 42 detection range, that could be very significant. The Argentines were not flying at wave height, so maybe even 100nm extra detection range? Perhaps Sheffield and Coventry survive as well.
Logistics for the ground force was the second major issue throughout the campaign. Improved ITTL if Atlantic Conveyor does not go down, but still insufficient. During OTL the lack of amphibious ships and landing craft resulted in a plan to use "sea-based logistics" (SBL) for part of the package (a pretty wild dream considering the available capabilities). In any event, SBL requires more helicopter support than the fleet can carry. Loss of the Chinooks on Atlantic Conveyor is often cited as creating the deficiency, but that really just made a bad situation worse. The USMC/USN has "played" with the idea of SBL in combination with STOM (ship-to-objective maneuver) for years, but many studies establish that the number of helicopters, MV-22s, etc. available is not sufficient to meet operational and logistical needs.

The ground troops had to "yomp" significant distances, and four more Chinooks would not have fixed the problem. There never were enough helicopters to handle either ship-to-shore or operational requirements, let alone both. What the British ground troops accomplished without adequate mobility and logistical support is simply amazing IMO.

I would also caution against attributing the "published" Harrier capabilities to performance in a ship-borne role. The ski jump increases the maximum takeoff weight by ~1,000lb over a straight deck run, but the published Harrier load and range capabilities are based on 1,200' to 1,500' takeoff runs from the ground. The maximum takeoff weight from a carrier is significantly less than from the ground, meaning less fuel, ordnance and endurance. IIRC, the Sea Harriers had an ~90 minute total endurance in AAW configuration during the Falklands campaign. This severely limited their CAP operations, especially considering the forced standoff range from their launch position east of the Falklands. Don't contribute the skill of the pilots and the Argentine Air Force limitations to some "significant" AAW capability for the aircraft. An extraordinary performance by the pilots and their squadron mates (keeping them in the air) with an aircraft that has very limited capability from a "carrier" deck. An engagement within range of enemy fighter support would be very, very dangerous for an STOVL carrier equipped with Harriers.

The statement to the effect that "another six properly functioning bomb fuses" could have changed the outcome is not really hyperbole. The "Phantomized" HMS Eagle would completely alter the equation.

There is far too much capability lost in leaving the Buccaneers ashore.

They have the ability to mount truly long range strikes - I have argued that RoE permitting, they should be used against the FAA & ARA land based establishment whilst keeping the task force entirely out of range of all, save potentially de Mayo. Flasheart may, or may not, choose to enable this, although even if he doesn't, those Buccs will be very handy in closing Stanley - at range - to fast movers if the Argentinians manage to successfully lengthen the r/w. I'd also imagine that their ability to drop six BL755 apiece will hurry the ground phase of the campaign along nicely - that's three times the loadout of either a GR.3 or FRS.1 per aircraft!

They're also the sole asset capable of using Martel, in either its anti - ship or anti - radiation flavours.

They can self designate for LGB attack.

They can also do this:
C2ERQR-XgAEx8ts by Frank Judge, on Flickr

Did you say no tankers??

With regard to your 'pooh - poohing' of SBL, either OTL or TTL, you might be surprised to see what was actually achieved in this regard. Factor in the additional three Chinooks & six 'Junglie' Wessex, which were lost aboard the Atlantic Conveyor OTL, and which, I assume, survive here & your situation is further improved by several orders of magnitude.

Ark's bow cat was just fine for FG.1 (A2A loadout - with Buccs available to 'top up' as required) launches btw, & there's no reason to suppose that Eagle ITTL is any different in this regard.

As to 'cautioning about the 'published' Harrier capabilities', you completely misunderstand the purpose of the ski jump. Its primary purpose is to allow the aircraft to operate at its maximum all - up weight, that is, the design limitation of the airframe itself. It also confers many other benefits - see this from a discussion with John Farley (I assume you know who he was?) from 2003:

"There several ways to get your head round why the ski-jump improves a Harrier STO performance without getting into the maths. But some may not be familiar with the basics of the VTO and STO so forgive me for tidying those away first.

A Harrier will only VTO if its weight is less than some 96 percent of the thrust available. (Not 100% as you need a tad to spare to accelerate the thing upwards as well as carrying the weight)

So, at max AUW you will typically be short of three or four tons of lift (actual amount depends on the mark of motor and airframe) This calls for an STO where you need to go fast enough on the surface for the wing to carry the excess weight plus some margin to stop it staggering, then when you bang the nozzles down the thing will get airborne on a mix of engine and wing lift.

Now imagine doing this from a flat deck. Life is better than from a runway as the deck height above the water is free and so you can delete the margin needed to stop the runway stagger. You shoot off into the air regardless and can also rotate the aircraft to the optimum AOA – which you cannot do ON the runway because of the bicycle main gear being well aft of the CG.

But all of this ship advantage vanishes (and then some) in rough water. If the ship is pitching you may get to the end of the deck when the bow is down and finish up diving towards the sea. Pulling out from this dive requires the ability to pull g, which means a considerable margin of lift is needed. So, once you are using all the deck to accelerate to as high an 'end' speed as possible you have no option but to reduce STO weight. And this weight reduction can be very large so quickly negating the benefit of the STO in the first place. So you become a fair weather only toy.

Now stick a ramp on the end where the exit angle is greater than any conceivable bow down tendency and you make every launch start with a climb courtesy of the ramp and the gear. End of ship motion problem Now consider a ramp angle much greater than that needed for the above and you really start to win. Your question is Why?

The secret is the ramp gives you TIME in the air even if you have zero lift.(I trust you can accept that even your bike or car would fly for quite a few moments before it gradually fell back towards the sea if you shot up a ramp at seventy or so kts)

If your bike or car is now a Harrier - where the engine can carry say 70 percent of the weight - then even without ANY wing lift you will only sink back towards the sea at 30% of gravity. If you arrange that the wing lift actually carries half of that 30% lift deficit then gravity only sucks you down at 15% of its normal rate. Which means you curve upwards for many seconds before you get level, let alone sink. You use this TIME to accelerate the wing to a higher airspeed (through the proper use of nozzle angle) to get more aerodynamic lift and so fly happily away. Even though you started at a weight that could NEVER have flown off a flat deck in a calm sea – because then you would not have had enough acceleration time before you got to the water.

There are many other advantages to the ski-jump in terms of handling and safety but your question was about performance".
 
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Question if britain has sent a stronger force are they working diferently with chile? Could chile play a more important role as they are a dictatorship and used this war to get close with the UK, if the argentines are beaten back worse than originally could chile intervene?
 
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