If Elizabeth I of England died of smallpox in October 1562, who would succeed her.

[pipisme]

Elizabeth nearly died. I am looking at a family tree of the children of Henry VII and Elizabeth of York. There is Mary Queen of Scots; Margaret Stewart, Countess of Lennox; Henry Clifford, Earl of Cumberland, the widower of Eleanor Brandon, a granddaughter of Henry VII; Catherine Grey, the younger sister of Lady Jane Grey and a great granddaughter of Henry VII.

Mary and Margaret were Catholics. Some members of Elizabeth's council were in favour of Catherine Grey. Others, including Lord Robert Dudley, favoured Henry Hastings, Earl of Huntingdon. He was descended on his mother's side from George, Duke of Clarence, the brother of Edward IV.

What do you think?

 

[Kerney]

I understood they were getting ready to announce Katherine Grey. She was also heir according to H8's will.

 

[pipisme]

However Katherine Grey had married Edward Seymour, Earl of Hertford. In December 1560 she had married without Elizabeth's permission, which was forbidden for any one in the line of succession. She was imprisoned by Elizabeth in the Tower of London, and had given birth to a son there, also called Edward. The following year, the marriage of Katherine and Edward was declared void, because there were no witnesses to it. . Therefore their son became iillegitimate. She was still in the Tower in October 1562. She died of tuberculosis in January 1568 at the age of twenty-nine.

 

[RedKing]

I’d imagine Katherine Grey would gain the support of Protestant English nobleman (who free her and are willing to legitimise/re-legitimise her son). Alternatively, the Protestnats could support Margaret Stanley (cousin of Katherine and next in line after Katherine if her son is taken out of the equation). Lastly, there is Mary, Queen of Scots who would likely marry someone who could help her conquer England (probably Henry Darnley). She would have the backing of the Catholic Englishmen and the French (since she’d be friendly enough with them). IMO this scenario would likely result in a civil war or at the very least a rebellion within England.

 

[marktaha]

Mary rightful hereditary Queen. If could come to.agreement re religious toleration- earlier union , peace with France Iikes of Knox crushed?

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Mary Grey?

 

[Mikestone8]

She died of tuberculosis in January 1568 at the age of twenty-nine.

Do we know when she contacted it? Had she been released in 1562 might she have lived longer?

Also, does MQoS still flee to England if Catherine rules there? And given that Catherine lacks the prestige of being King Harry's daughter, does the Rebellion of the Northern Earls gather more support?

 

[pipisme]

Mary Grey was a hunchback and abnormally short. She had married Thomas Keyes, a royal serjeant-porter, without the approval of Elizabeth. Both Mary and Thomas were imprisoned, though Mary was eventually released.

In a conversation with William Maitland of Lethington, Mary Queen of Scot's chief minister, Elizabeth said, 'However it be, so long as I live, I shall be Queen of England; when I am dead, they shall succeed that has most right'. She confided to Lethington that she preferred Mary to any of her other possible successors.

At the height of her illness Elizabeth was unconscious and incapable of speech. Mary was not once considered a possible candidate by Elizabeth's council in their urgent discussions regarding Elizabeth's successor. 'According to the Spanish ambassador, however, a powerful and silent Catholic minority favoured the Queen of Scots'.

About a month after Elizabeth had recovered from her illness, she heard about a meeting of her noblemen in the house of the Earl of Arundel, to discuss the question of the succession. It lasted until two in the morning, and the claim of Lady Katherine Grey was generally regarded as the most favoured.

The Earl of Huntingdon wrote to his friend, Lord Robert Dudley, after he was promoted as a possible successor to Elizabeth, that he did not want 'any greatness of myself,' and that he had always to live a quiet life. But the 'lords were opposed to the claim of the Earl of Huntingdon because Lord Robert approved of him. (1)

I think that Lady Katherine Grey would be released from the Tower of England, and declared Queen of England and her son, Edward, born in 1561, declared legitimate.

(1) I have taken the information and quotations in this message from the book Elizabeth and Mary: Cousins, Rivals, Queens by Jane Dunn, London: HarperCollinsPublishers, 2003.

 

[pipisme]

Do we know when she contacted it? Had she been released in 1562 might she have lived longer?

Also, does MQoS still flee to England if Catherine rules there? And given that Catherine lacks the prestige of being King Harry's daughter, does the Rebellion of the Northern Earls gather more support?

According to http://www.philippagregory.com/news/death-of-katherine-grey, 'it is thought that Katherine died from consumption although some historians suggest her deep unhappiness led to anorexia which took her life.'

Mary Queen of Scots and Katherine had not written to each other. But if Katherine became Queen of England, Mary would have written to her. Mary recognised Katherine as her chief rival to the throne of England, Both women married for love. I think they would have become friends. Mary and Elizabeth were widely different in their personalities, that makes their relationship so interesting.

Mary was in panic after the defeat of her army at the battle of Langside on 13 May 1568. She feared imprisonment, even murder, so she threw herself on Elizabeth's hospitality, and fled across the border into England. If Katherine had not died the previous and was still Queen of England, Mary would probably still have fled to England.

I think the Rebellion of the Northern Earls would probably have gathered some, but not a lot, more support.

 

[Mikestone8]

Mary Queen of Scots and Katherine had not written to each other. But if Katherine became Queen of England, Mary would have written to her. Mary recognised Katherine as her chief rival to the throne of England

Small difference. Elizabeth, if recognised as legitimate, was definitely ahead of MQoS in the line of succession. Catherine definitely isn't. MQoS recognises her, she is accepting her own exclusion from the English succession. t likely?

 

[Urbanus VII]

Margherita Douglas

Elizabeth I dies of smallpox in 1562

What if the smallpox which Elizabeth caught in this year had killed her, the third of Henry VIII's children to die childless after a short reign? The extinction of the Tudor dynasty would cause a succession crisis with the obvious claimant- Mary, Queen of Scots- a Roman Catholic. Would Mary...

www.alternatehistory.com

 

[pipisme]

Small difference. Elizabeth, if recognised as legitimate, was definitely ahead of MQoS in the line of succession. Catherine definitely isn't. MQoS recognises her, she is accepting her own exclusion from the English succession. t likely?

It would be Elizabeth's council who would choose her successor. Katherine Grey had a son and heir. If Mary Queen of Scots claimed the throne of England, how could she enforce her claim?

 

[Mikestone8]

It would be Elizabeth's council who would choose her successor.

Sure, but in 1553 they had chosen Catherine' sister - ad we know how that turned out.

Being proclaimed Queen is one thing - hanging on to the job quite another.

 

[ordinarylittleme]

And well Katherine Grey did not exactly show that she was up to the job so to say

 

[Kerney]

Sure, but in 1553 they had chosen Catherine' sister - ad we know how that turned out.

Being proclaimed Queen is one thing - hanging on to the job quite another.

H8's Will chose the Greys over the Stuarts. Plus she's Protestant with an heir and English, which favor her over a Scottish Frenchwoman Catholic.

It was only 45 years and a scandal for people to forget.

Katherine isn't cutting in line, therefore in is unlikely to have her head cut off.

And well Katherine Grey did not exactly show that she was up to the job so to say

MQoS isn't much competition. Katherine also may have thought Elizabeth was trying to prevent her marriage, which may have been a factor in her behavior.

 

[Mikestone8]

H8's Will chose the Greys over the Stuarts. Plus she's Protestant with an heir and English, which favor her over a Scottish Frenchwoman Catholic.

Yet there was a serious revo;t even against Elizabeth, which may well be bigger agaist a comparative lightweight like Catherine.

 

[Kerney]

Yet there was a serious revo;t even against Elizabeth, which may well be bigger agaist a comparative lightweight like Catherine.

I assume you're talking about Jane. It was on behalf of Mary. Any revolt would be on behalf of Elizabeth, oh wait she's dead.

Being Jane's sister might help her because everyone 'knows' who she is and that she's next.

And we don't really know if she's a perma-lightweight incapable of learning . We do know MQoS is. Katherine screwed up once. Mary is a continual screw up.

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Honestly whether or not Katherine or Mary get the throne, England is still astoundingly screwed, judging by the signs of intelligence they displayed, aka none whatsoever

 

[Tudorfan]

Well, Mary I won the throne by using Henry VIII's will to show she was next in line; if Elizabeth dies, Katherine Grey is, per Henry VIII's will, next in line to the throne and the Stuarts, per his will, had no claim. Parliament had approved this in his will, so it was valid.

Katherine Grey it is.

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Well, Mary I won the throne by using Henry VIII's will to show she was next in line; if Elizabeth dies, Katherine Grey is, per Henry VIII's will, next in line to the throne and the Stuarts, per his will, had no claim. Parliament had approved this in his will, so it was valid.

Katherine Grey it is.

Mary won because she was popular. Katherine Grey was not.