Burton K Wheeler
Moderator
No, the Polynesians don't count. Bear with me...
Someone mentioned 1421 the other day and it got me thinking. While China from the Tang dynasty on probably had the capability to visit and trade throughout the Pacific Rim, its tendency to be a large centralized state makes Chinese colonization or sustained trade with the the Americas or any other remote part of the Pacific Rim unlikely (though I'm aware there were sustained Chinese trading networks in Southeast Asia).
Europe, on the other hand, at least from the medieval period on, was very likely to create sustained trade in the Atlantic and Indian Ocean. Even if superpowers like France had no interest in the Americas, there was always going to be a Netherlands or Portugal, or an English joint stock company, or Genoese or Venetian merchants, or someone who wants to build long-lasting trade networks.
So the challenge is to create a Pacific Rim sea power that trades with China or Southeast Asia and has the capability to trade regularly with the New World or reach Africa and India if they want to.
The technology existed from very early on. Sea Dayaks from Borneo colonized Madagascar in the first centuries AD. Chinese junks were at least the equivalent of European medieval ships. Of course the Polynesians and Micronesians were great navigators, perhaps the best ever. So why wasn't there a Pacific version of Carthage or Venice or some other maritime republic?
Some candidates:
I've already said why China is probably not a good candidate, though an ethnic Chinese merchant republic seems likely.
While the Polynesians were fantastic seafarers, none of their polities except New Zealand had the population for sustained trading, and New Zealand was so big and rich that its people didn't need seafaring and abandoned a lot of it.
Currents are really favorable for Japan to trade with the New World. Japanese fishing boats wrecked in California and the Northwest all the time from the 1700's on, but was Japanese sailing advanced enough before that? I'm aware of the Wako in the medieval era, could they be the impetus for a seafaring culture?
One wild candidate that comes to mind is Aleuts, Aluutiiq, or Haida people reaching Asia.
Southeast Asia seems like the most likely place, given sailing technology, population, and access to trade networks, but I don't know which islands would be the place to start.
Someone mentioned 1421 the other day and it got me thinking. While China from the Tang dynasty on probably had the capability to visit and trade throughout the Pacific Rim, its tendency to be a large centralized state makes Chinese colonization or sustained trade with the the Americas or any other remote part of the Pacific Rim unlikely (though I'm aware there were sustained Chinese trading networks in Southeast Asia).
Europe, on the other hand, at least from the medieval period on, was very likely to create sustained trade in the Atlantic and Indian Ocean. Even if superpowers like France had no interest in the Americas, there was always going to be a Netherlands or Portugal, or an English joint stock company, or Genoese or Venetian merchants, or someone who wants to build long-lasting trade networks.
So the challenge is to create a Pacific Rim sea power that trades with China or Southeast Asia and has the capability to trade regularly with the New World or reach Africa and India if they want to.
The technology existed from very early on. Sea Dayaks from Borneo colonized Madagascar in the first centuries AD. Chinese junks were at least the equivalent of European medieval ships. Of course the Polynesians and Micronesians were great navigators, perhaps the best ever. So why wasn't there a Pacific version of Carthage or Venice or some other maritime republic?
Some candidates:
I've already said why China is probably not a good candidate, though an ethnic Chinese merchant republic seems likely.
While the Polynesians were fantastic seafarers, none of their polities except New Zealand had the population for sustained trading, and New Zealand was so big and rich that its people didn't need seafaring and abandoned a lot of it.
Currents are really favorable for Japan to trade with the New World. Japanese fishing boats wrecked in California and the Northwest all the time from the 1700's on, but was Japanese sailing advanced enough before that? I'm aware of the Wako in the medieval era, could they be the impetus for a seafaring culture?
One wild candidate that comes to mind is Aleuts, Aluutiiq, or Haida people reaching Asia.
Southeast Asia seems like the most likely place, given sailing technology, population, and access to trade networks, but I don't know which islands would be the place to start.