Post WW2 - How would you invade the UK?

[MKD]

Ok, here goes. Almost touching the third rail of Alternative History.com:

1. You are in a position to invade Britain from Europe. Could it be done?
2. If so where do you land?
3. Can UK forces resist the invasion

my view is that it could be done but there are a number of large assumptions to build in:

• Conventional war in Europe
• NATO defeated BEFORE US reserves can arrive
• NATO alliance fractured
• Large number of UK/NATO troops lost in Europe
• No chance of a second "Dunkirk"
• RAF & RN worn down giving at least parity
• Sufficient resources available both in men and machines
• UK critical infrastructure degraded ( to include cyber warfare if modern enough)
• Unwillingness of UK government to use nuclear weapons on home soil

As for the landing areas surely the best locations would be the south coast between Brighton and Folkstone ( with gaps for areas like Beachy Head). Pevensey worked well for William the B*stard after-all! This gives good ground for your landings and a short route to London. Obviously inland you have a modern and hastily established GHQ stop line and some kind of citadel ring around London ( if we have enough time to throw something together) to beat but if you get ashore quickly enough, in enough numbers and with armour and air support I think you can breach that obstacle.

Surely the best chance is for UK forces ( and whatever else NATO wise can be found) is to beat the invasion before or as it happens. Once ashore I think we are done for.

We could try and hang on till the US cavalry rides to the rescue but we cant trade much space for time and we don't have the resources to expend in a slogging match. I don't think we could use nuclear ( or biological/chemical) weapons on the invasion as that would lead to the loss of everything via a nuclear response. With enemy submarines/naval forces in the Atlantic our supply lines are at risk meaning that even if we can hang on we might run out of food and oil and ammunition before help can arrive.

This is more of an intellectual exercise than anything else and you are welcome to pick any time period post WW2. If you really want to you are welcome to irradiate large parts of our wonderful country to further your aims but I would prefer a conventional war as I would like to have a chance of living through it!

Finally: THIS IS NOT A CERTAIN HATED SEA MAMMAL THREAD. REPEAT THIS IS NOT A CERTAIN HATED SEA MAMMAL THREAD. SET FOR DEFCON 2!

 

[ReconGuy02]

Lol, no need in this. France promised that they would nuke USSR if Soviet boots crossed German-French border. "Force du Frappé"...

 

[RightHoJeeves]

This is more of an intellectual exercise than anything else and you are welcome to pick any time period post WW2. If you really want to you are welcome to irradiate large parts of our wonderful country to further your aims but I would prefer a conventional war as I would like to have a chance of living through it!

Well that's the problem, you can't destroy the RN and RAF without breaking out the nukes, which of course means the UK and US will nuke you, assuming, of course, that the French haven't beaten them to it the second you cross the Rhine. So either nuclear weapons don't exist in this world or we all glow the in the dark before any hostile power even looks at the Channel.

 

[MKD]

Lol, no need in this. France promised that they would nuke USSR if Soviet boots crossed German-French border. "Force du Frappé"...

Well that's the problem, you can't destroy the RN and RAF without breaking out the nukes, which of course means the UK and US will nuke you, assuming, of course, that the French haven't beaten them to it the second you cross the Rhine. So either nuclear weapons don't exist in this world or we all glow the in the dark before any hostile power even looks at the Channel.

Ok - What happens if the red team don't invade France? Perhaps some form of maskirvoka has kept our Gallic chums out of the fight?

 

[Deleted member 94680]

Ok - What happens if the red team don't invade France? Perhaps some form of maskirvoka has kept our Gallic chums out of the fight?

That's one hell of a deception plan to mask the fact an invasion of the United Kingdom is happening! Also, where is the invasion now based from?

 

[MKD]

That's one hell of a deception plan to mask the fact an invasion of the United Kingdom is happening! Also, where is the invasion now based from?

I was being slightly factious - I meant more that some form of strategic deception ensured France was going through one of it's if not actively anti NATO than certainly typically Gallic anti NATO periods! As for a base would Belgium do?

 

[GDIS Pathe]

I was being slightly factious - I meant more that some form of strategic deception ensured France was going through one of it's if not actively anti NATO than certainly typically Gallic anti NATO periods! As for a base would Belgium do?

Mines lots and lots of mines

 

[Deleted member 94680]

I was being slightly factious - I meant more that some form of strategic deception ensured France was going through one of it's if not actively anti NATO than certainly typically Gallic anti NATO periods! As for a base would Belgium do?

Not really, no. Too far away and obvious as to what they're doing. They're going to have enough problems building the invasion fleet up as it is, adding the extra time required to come from Belgium makes it even worse.

 

[Forcon]

I don't think the French nukes are particularly relevent to this thread in itself. I know we're trying to be realistic, but let's assume the POD prevents a nuclear exchange and have an interesting debate about a post-WW2 invasion of the UK?

There's really nothing interesting about unanimously agreeing on the end of the world, so we may as well debate how to invade the UK.

 

[Antiochus V]

Assuming it is a scenario of the EU turning on the UK for trying to leave, it actually looks quite possible if it is a surprise attack.

We can call the scenario ‘Blue Dawn’ or ‘Le Sealion’
The first move - The French send a force of crack commandos to seize both ends of the channel tunnel meanwhile the various European fleets and airforces carry out a series of air attacks. Significant forces could be quickly moved by rail.
Later in the day airborne forces seize Gatwick airport and start flying in troops.
Meanwhile a second airborne force seizes a port and starts shipping in more Gallic invaders by cross channel ferry.

By the time the British army can react they are already on the defensive and spread out too thin, it is quite key to time the invasion to avoid weekends or drill nights to ensure the reserves are not in their barracks.

 

[saluto]

It’s pointless to theorise about an invasion while ignoring every factor which would make it a failure or prevent it from happening in the first place.

 

[Glyndwr01]

Stow away in the back of trucks!

 

[Dave Howery]

We can call the scenario ‘Blue Dawn’ or ‘Le Sealion’

Heh. I remember an article in The General (for the 3rd Fleet game) with a scenario titled 'Red Sealion', where (with a hastily sketched background), the commie hordes are preparing to invade Britain after NATO has fallen apart and no one but Canada seems to care. Yeah, really unlikely, I'm pretty sure the author just wanted a scenario where the Russians and Brit naval forces could fight it out without the huge overwhelming USN coming into play...

 

[MKD]

I don't think the French nukes are particularly relevent to this thread in itself. I know we're trying to be realistic, but let's assume the POD prevents a nuclear exchange and have an interesting debate about a post-WW2 invasion of the UK?

There's really nothing interesting about unanimously agreeing on the end of the world, so we may as well debate how to invade the UK.

agreed - i said this was more an intellectual excercise

Assuming it is a scenario of the EU turning on the UK for trying to leave, it actually looks quite possible if it is a surprise attack.

We can call the scenario ‘Blue Dawn’ or ‘Le Sealion’
The first move - The French send a force of crack commandos to seize both ends of the channel tunnel meanwhile the various European fleets and airforces carry out a series of air attacks. Significant forces could be quickly moved by rail.
Later in the day airborne forces seize Gatwick airport and start flying in troops.
Meanwhile a second airborne force seizes a port and starts shipping in more Gallic invaders by cross channel ferry.

By the time the British army can react they are already on the defensive and spread out too thin, it is quite key to time the invasion to avoid weekends or drill nights to ensure the reserves are not in their barracks.

If we are honest the EU mandated risk assessment form ( to be completed in triplicate) would be enough to paralyse any response! Sorry, caught sight of the Daily Mail on the way into work..................

 

[Dorknought]

Poles

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poles_in_the_United_Kingdom

It's because of the plumbing.

 

[Carl Schwamberger]

I think the Russians already did. Special ops guys flew in tourist class and poisoned their targets.

 

[Jack1971]

Stow away in the back of trucks!

The only way for foreigners to invade the UK is through migration, illegal or otherwise. Last year I was in London, and it became quickly apparent that the ethnic English are being overwhelmed. But that’s hardly akin to a military invasion, since what I describe is more an invasion of demographics, sort of like Han Chinese taking over Tibet, or Europeans displacing indigenous people in North and South America, or in England the Norse, Angles and Saxons pushing out the Celts and Picts. But the affect is often the same as a military invasion.

 

[Deleted member 94680]

The only way for foreigners to invade the UK is through migration, illegal or otherwise. Last year I was in London, and it became quickly apparent that the ethnic English are being overwhelmed. But that’s hardly akin to a military invasion, since what I describe is more an invasion of demographics, sort of like Han Chinese taking over Tibet, or Europeans displacing indigenous people in North and South America, or in England the Norse, Angles and Saxons pushing out the Celts and Picts. But the affect is often the same as a military invasion.

Save it for the Daily Nail comment pages, yeah? Can we stick to the thread at hand please?

 

[Look More Closely Later]

Ok, here goes. Almost touching the third rail of Alternative History.com:

1. You are in a position to invade Britain from Europe. Could it be done?

...Finally: THIS IS NOT A CERTAIN HATED SEA MAMMAL THREAD. REPEAT THIS IS NOT A CERTAIN HATED SEA MAMMAL THREAD. SET FOR DEFCON 2!

Except, if you're talking about a military invasion, it seems to me that this is a Sealion thread, which you have started, because like Hitler, one of your problems is amphibious lift capability and for the British for some reason to either not notice that you are busy building it or to notice but not do anything about it. Well either that or for someone who already has it who the British thought were allies to suddenly switch sides...
And this assumes that the global political situation is not so crazy that there is a fruitcake in number ten Downing Street who might actually try to use British nuclear weapons for anything other than retaliation to a nuclear attack. (Assuming events are not taking place in the immediate post WW2 period when the UK did not have nuclear weapons, but in this period a number of the big players are at least still recovering from or digesting their gains from WW2, and may not be motivated to try and start something.)

 

[Look More Closely Later]

Except, if you're talking about a military invasion, it seems to me that this is a Sealion thread, which you have started, because like Hitler, one of your problems is amphibious lift capability and for the British for some reason to either not notice that you are busy building it or to notice but not do anything about it. Well either that or for someone who already has it who the British thought were allies to suddenly switch sides...
And this assumes that the global political situation is not so crazy that there is a fruitcake in number ten Downing Street who might actually try to use British nuclear weapons for anything other than retaliation to a nuclear attack. (Assuming events are not taking place in the immediate post WW2 period when the UK did not have nuclear weapons, but in this period a number of the big players are at least still recovering from or digesting their gains from WW2, and may not be motivated to try and start something.)

Although as an addenda to this, I suppose if you have a really wildly divergent timeline, you might be able to conjure up a civil war in the UK scenario where one side or the other invites someone else to come in from outside and help them.
I'm not sure if how far that goes towards qualifying as an 'invasion' though.