Prevent the fall of France
- Thread starter Xgentis
- Start date
BlairWitch749
Banned
more substantial investment into the air force, air defense and early warning including provision of useful divisional aa guns
much more realistic war games exercises for years before the war to allow armored division logistics bugs to be worked out (like keeping units supplied with fuel which was a chronic problem in 1940)
wholesale sacking of older unimaginative officers with replacement by younger more aggressive officers
less investment in foot infantry and standing obsolete equipment in the 20's and 30's... france spent enormous sums on national defense in the interwar years, far more than Germany, but keeping the equipment serviceable for a 100 division army was a huge waste of money and ultimately unproductive versus trying to form a much more solid and balanced 60 division army (which the maginot line should have allowed them to do)
much more realistic war games exercises for years before the war to allow armored division logistics bugs to be worked out (like keeping units supplied with fuel which was a chronic problem in 1940)
wholesale sacking of older unimaginative officers with replacement by younger more aggressive officers
less investment in foot infantry and standing obsolete equipment in the 20's and 30's... france spent enormous sums on national defense in the interwar years, far more than Germany, but keeping the equipment serviceable for a 100 division army was a huge waste of money and ultimately unproductive versus trying to form a much more solid and balanced 60 division army (which the maginot line should have allowed them to do)
Put some units with AT guns in the Ardennes.
Have the units south of Sedan realize that the Germans are heading west, not looking to outflank the Maginot Line.
Have the Germans follow the original plan by not having a copy fall into Belgian hands. (Plane crashes in Germany).
Have the units south of Sedan realize that the Germans are heading west, not looking to outflank the Maginot Line.
Have the Germans follow the original plan by not having a copy fall into Belgian hands. (Plane crashes in Germany).
IIRC wasn't there a fairly vital bridge that the Germans had to use so they surrounded it with insane numbers of anti-aircraft guns, so that when the Allies attempted to bomb it they suffered massive casualties without being able to damage it? I have memories of several planes being shot down and crashing pretty near to the bridge, also that a couple of the senior German commanders had an impromptu conference right on the middle of it.
BlairWitch749
Banned
This was Guderian's 1st rifle regiment crossing the Meuse at Sedan
and the two regiments of AA guns he stationed to guard the bridgehead shot down 252 allied aircraft in 10 days
Cook
Banned
Don't have France waste its efforts building the Maginot Line and hiding behind it while Hitler takes the Rhineland, Austria and Sudetenland. After that you don't have much hope.
Hoist40
Banned
The French 75mm model 1897 to the rescue. The French had thousands of these left over from WW1. They were capable of destroying any tank the Germans had, plus their infantry and anti-tank guns.
The only problem was that the old gun carriage had very little traverse to track moving targets and it could not be towed behind a vehicle. So build a new gun carriage similar to the ones the Americans made for their 75mm guns. Issue them to the French divisions at a rate of 48 or 72 per division and the Germans will have real problems trying to overrun them.
Cheap but effective.
http://olive-drab.com/idphoto/id_photos_m1897_75mm.php
The only problem was that the old gun carriage had very little traverse to track moving targets and it could not be towed behind a vehicle. So build a new gun carriage similar to the ones the Americans made for their 75mm guns. Issue them to the French divisions at a rate of 48 or 72 per division and the Germans will have real problems trying to overrun them.
Cheap but effective.
http://olive-drab.com/idphoto/id_photos_m1897_75mm.php
That's the bunny, and defending it with 300 anti-aircraft guns means it was pretty vital to things. So simply have one of the planes that were shot down whilst trying to bomb it and almost crashed into it actually hit the bridge, for an added bonus killing Guderian and von Rundstedt who are standing about having a chat on the middle of it at the time, and consequently slow the German advance somewhat. Gives the French a little more breathing space and a possible chance to regroup a bit.
How about if Belgium doesn't declare neutrality and remains with France and the UK? This obviously removes the Dyle Plan as we know it, but Germany may still choose an attack through the Ardennes?
Faeelin
Banned
France goes off the gold standard earlier, inflates its economy. See http://www.theatlantic.com/business...conomic-ideas-in-the-1930s-and-today/265696/#.
This isn't as sexy as a fluke of battle, but it should do it.
This isn't as sexy as a fluke of battle, but it should do it.
- As surprising as it sounds, keep Gamelin as a CnC in 19th of May. The confusion caused by this change, and the clumsy and slow way his successor started to do the things were the final nail to the coffin of French war effort. Prevent the exhausted Pervitin-fumed panzer crews from consolidating their positions in the "armored corridor", and make a pincer counterattack from north and south before their infantry divisions and logistics have time to catch up. At this time Hitler was extremely worried and feared a trap, and he would most likely blink first and pull the endangered spearhead back from the coast if the Allied counterattack appeared more coordinated and German infantry would be unable to march to the battle in time.
In addition there's few useful things.
- More rational aircraft industry -> larger and up-to-date Armée de l'Air -> evenly contested airspace in Benelux
- Have the French start their cooperation program with Henry Mohaupt earlier than OTL, resulting to shaped-charge AT rifle grenade as a squad-level weapon in 1940.
In addition there's few useful things.
- More rational aircraft industry -> larger and up-to-date Armée de l'Air -> evenly contested airspace in Benelux
- Have the French start their cooperation program with Henry Mohaupt earlier than OTL, resulting to shaped-charge AT rifle grenade as a squad-level weapon in 1940.
1) Scrap the Breda variant that sent the best French army and the best French light armored division (1st DLM) all the way across Belgium into Holland instead of holding it in central reserve. That cut French reserves in half and the what was left was much less mobile.
2) Keep the third French heavy armored division (DCR) in reserve instead of pretending it was ready to fight. It wasn't, and it's failure in the early fighting destroyed it. It could have been very useful later on.
3) Prevent commanders in central Belgium from grabbing control of the Somua S35s of the 3rd DLM and using them in penny packets on defense. The 3rd DLM was supposed to screen the infantry until they got set up, then withdraw and be available as a reserve. It took days the French didn't have to pry those tanks out of the hands of the front-line commanders.
4) The French needed to understand that Belgium did not plan to fight in the Ardennes. Belgium just blew bridges and withdrew for the most part, which was a major reason--though not the only one--the Germans crossed the Ardennes in three days rather than the ten days the French were counting on. If the French understood that Belgium was going to withdraw without a fight, they would also understand that going as deep into Belgium as they did historically was inviting disaster because the Belgian withdrawal left a very weak flank wide open.
5) Have bad weather delay the German invasion by about a week to ten days. That might give the French time to resolve their command situation. Reynaud (French Premier) wanted Gamelin (French commander) sacked because he seemed more interested in making sure he didn't get blamed for any fiascoes than in prevent them. Technically, the French government had fallen over the issue at the moment the Germans attacked. Gamelin was a smart man, but had been doing politics too long and had gotten infected with a politician's style of leadership without accountability.
I'm not sure the French would hold given all of that, but they would have a better shot at it.
2) Keep the third French heavy armored division (DCR) in reserve instead of pretending it was ready to fight. It wasn't, and it's failure in the early fighting destroyed it. It could have been very useful later on.
3) Prevent commanders in central Belgium from grabbing control of the Somua S35s of the 3rd DLM and using them in penny packets on defense. The 3rd DLM was supposed to screen the infantry until they got set up, then withdraw and be available as a reserve. It took days the French didn't have to pry those tanks out of the hands of the front-line commanders.
4) The French needed to understand that Belgium did not plan to fight in the Ardennes. Belgium just blew bridges and withdrew for the most part, which was a major reason--though not the only one--the Germans crossed the Ardennes in three days rather than the ten days the French were counting on. If the French understood that Belgium was going to withdraw without a fight, they would also understand that going as deep into Belgium as they did historically was inviting disaster because the Belgian withdrawal left a very weak flank wide open.
5) Have bad weather delay the German invasion by about a week to ten days. That might give the French time to resolve their command situation. Reynaud (French Premier) wanted Gamelin (French commander) sacked because he seemed more interested in making sure he didn't get blamed for any fiascoes than in prevent them. Technically, the French government had fallen over the issue at the moment the Germans attacked. Gamelin was a smart man, but had been doing politics too long and had gotten infected with a politician's style of leadership without accountability.
I'm not sure the French would hold given all of that, but they would have a better shot at it.