Rough draft of "Crazy Days" ATL.
- Thread starter Mako-Chan
- Start date
Well the rise of fasciscm could be seen in three forms. It can be seen as a a right-wing nationalistic backlash to the rise of Communism. A good example of this type of phenomenon would OTL's 1994 rise of Vladimir Zhirinovsky in 1994 as a result of the 1991 collapse of the USSR. It can also be seen as a centrist reaction to the WORE, Some good examples would be the rise of the Mubarak government in 1981 in OTL, after the rise of 1979 Iranian Revolution. Third, it can be seen as an offshoot of German power growth, with the governments reflecting the nature of the superpower influence, such as the 1948 Communist Party Revolutions in Eastern Europe in OTL. Either that or you can have a combination of all three factors...
Mr_ Bondoc said:
That sounds pretty plausible. Post-Communist Italy would be ripe for a Fascist takeover. Interestingly enough I was actually thinking of having Zhirinovsky rise to power in 1997 in this ATL. I'm also thinking about having Saddam Hussein win against Iran and thus building a new Babylonian Empire, instead of losing both that war and the Gulf War. Perhaps we'll see a Moscow-Baghdad-Rome Axis in the 21st Century?
One thing that's interesting is that in this ATL the GIs, Silents, some of the Baby Boomers, and possibly the post-Baby Boom generations were all involved in World Wars. That sort of global war every generation is bound to have huge impacts on society. It’s a given that people will be forced to sacrifice more, be more community-minded, consume less. Technology will also inevitably be sped up, and I'm certain that there will be a Second Baby Boom after WWIII (lasting probably from 1973 to 1991). What other effects will this have on day to day life? On pop-culture?
Well there are certain things that become inevitable with the ATL. First by the mid-1970s, there will be the belief that American democracy is the inevitable victor against fascism and communism. By 1976, the there will be a belief in most Washington circles that India or Russia will be making reforms to be "more like America" (at least according to ATL's Henry Kissinger).
Another thing is that The Fourth Turning by William Strauss and Neil Howe would certainly be taken more seriously (especially about the idea that every generation must face some conflict). As such, on a pop culture level, you will have people take the idea of "psychohistory", the "Bible Code", Kabbalah, and astrology since "all things are fated..."
As for other pop culture items, you have seriously altered the comic book landscape. For instance, The Uncanny X-Men were based on the exploits of the American civil rights movement, with Charles Xavier espousing the views of MLK Jr. and Magneto representing Malcolm X. With the violence of the civil rights movement in the ATL, all of the X-Men characters would have been relegated to villian status. Comic book heroes, such as Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman, Green Lantern, and Captain America would be used to fight the propoganda war of the period. As such, expect issues wherein Lex Luthor or Red Skull is found to be an agent of the Italian government.
With the shape of the civil rights movement, you probably won't see Shaft created in the 1970s. The stories of Cotton Comes to Harlem , Black Caesar , and Shaft often featured a conflict between the Italian-American Mafia and the African-American heroes. As such, many "blaxploitation films" will never get made.
Another thing is that The Fourth Turning by William Strauss and Neil Howe would certainly be taken more seriously (especially about the idea that every generation must face some conflict). As such, on a pop culture level, you will have people take the idea of "psychohistory", the "Bible Code", Kabbalah, and astrology since "all things are fated..."
As for other pop culture items, you have seriously altered the comic book landscape. For instance, The Uncanny X-Men were based on the exploits of the American civil rights movement, with Charles Xavier espousing the views of MLK Jr. and Magneto representing Malcolm X. With the violence of the civil rights movement in the ATL, all of the X-Men characters would have been relegated to villian status. Comic book heroes, such as Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman, Green Lantern, and Captain America would be used to fight the propoganda war of the period. As such, expect issues wherein Lex Luthor or Red Skull is found to be an agent of the Italian government.
With the shape of the civil rights movement, you probably won't see Shaft created in the 1970s. The stories of Cotton Comes to Harlem , Black Caesar , and Shaft often featured a conflict between the Italian-American Mafia and the African-American heroes. As such, many "blaxploitation films" will never get made.
Mr_ Bondoc said:
On Kissinger: Good idea, though again Fascism as a fully-developed concept will not arise until after WWIII. Communism will have died in India for the most part as the ATL states, with maybe a few socialists in power but the regime basically crushed.
On the Fourth Turning and other fatalism: Yes, I would expect that some kind of Astrology, "psychohistory", and other Mysticism would take root in this ATL. I'm not sure whether The Fourth Turning would even be the same as OTL more or less, but I'm sure something similar with a much more serious tone and concrete facts will arise (which is a good thing, I personally consider TFT to be mostly slightly-outdated new-age optimistic junk).
On Civil Rights: Actually, with the exception of the Busing riots (which were started by whites, more info on that later) the Civil Rights movement is considerably better off in this ATL. Kennedy never implemented a "Southern Strategy" and the Southern Dixiecrats and other bigots continued to lose influence in both parties. There was a huge movement to give equal benefits (and respect) to returning Black Veterans in this ATL. And there might not even be a Malcom X in this ATL.
On Blaxploitation: The mob is undoutably going to be much stronger in a world where the Russians are headed by a Totalitarian but corrupt Orthodox Party. The same thing goes for the post-War, Post-Communist Italians. Thus the Italian and Russian mobs will be a problem during the 1970's. So it's concievable that Blaxploitation films will still be made, maybe even better made.
On Comics:
With the above stated, I doubt the X-Men will be villified characters. DC and Marvel will undoutably publish a huge amount of ultra-patriotic war time comics (example: Captain America), where everyone from Nick Fury to Superman fights the "Ruskies" and "ICs" (Italian Communists). JPK may even recieve the near god-like treatment that FDR did in OTL's comics.
Post-war comics will be interesting to say the least. In OTL, Horror comics made a slight comeback but were still nothing compared to Superheroes. In this ATL, Superheroes may very well find competition from Crime comics, as the Mob is a real problem and public interest in it is skyrocketing. The 1980's may still have grim and gritty characters (in response to the darker crime stories), Crisis on Infinite Earths type events, and Graphic Novels like Watchmen. The 1990's-early 21st century may see a huge explosion in Animation, Comics, etc. like it did in OTL.
Some other events that would certainly be interesting is the effect on food. Consider until 1968 with Julia Child, most food and diets in American households consisted of Rice-a-roni, Velveeta Cheese, Wonder Bread, Twinkies, and Hamburger Helper. As such, try to imagine American diets without the introduction of pizza or spaghetti, with McDonalds the most exotic dish for most people. Then again Indian food could become popular starting in the 1950s/1960s, just as Chinese food did in OTL.
Another weird idea is that Bollywood could become popular during the 1970s, just as Hong Kong flicks became popular in the 1970s. This could happen in the period from 1970-1972 when Broadway musicals had a brief revival (see Xanadu , Grease , orFosse ).
Another pop culture item is the Beatles. The Beatles initially broke up after George Harrison decided to pursue the teachings of Indian musical guru Ravi Shankar in 1968. After falling out with the Ravi Shankar, John Lennon decided to pursue the teachings of Timothy Leary, causing greater rifts within the group. As such, try to imagine the group staying together in a form similar to the Rollling Stones.
Another weird idea is that Bollywood could become popular during the 1970s, just as Hong Kong flicks became popular in the 1970s. This could happen in the period from 1970-1972 when Broadway musicals had a brief revival (see Xanadu , Grease , orFosse ).
Another pop culture item is the Beatles. The Beatles initially broke up after George Harrison decided to pursue the teachings of Indian musical guru Ravi Shankar in 1968. After falling out with the Ravi Shankar, John Lennon decided to pursue the teachings of Timothy Leary, causing greater rifts within the group. As such, try to imagine the group staying together in a form similar to the Rollling Stones.
Mr_ Bondoc said:
Indian food growing in popularity? That sounds like a good idea. I would think that a Communist Italy would actually result in Italian food becoming more common and popular, because there would be a huge amount of immigrants coming in.
Bollywood emerging as a cheesy, but popular sub-genre like Kung-fu movies sounds good. Maybe this ATL's pop culture is more asian-ized as a result (maybe anime becomes popular in the 1980's in this world as well?). One thing to consider is the effect of Totalitarian propaganda and control on Bollywood though. I'd imagine that there might be some pretty exotic and dark movies coming from post-Communist India.
The Beatles surviving as a Rolling Stones kind of group until the 1970's also sounds like a good idea, though I'm not sure how that would effect the pop culture scene in this ATL. Any ideas on the long term consequences of such a group dynamic occurring?
Well, with Bollywood pictures, just consider the propoganda value of perpetually happy and singing dancers. Bollywood pictures are a light affair and as such wouldn't reflect the total sum of Indian cinema. There is still room for dark dramas, historical (propoganda) pieces, and horror flicks.
As for other weird twists. Pop culture would cetrtainly be a lot darker witht he steady influx of Russian literature and cinema into the United States and Western Europe. As a given rule, most Russian cinema is depressing and often turgid material, (IMHO) citing such examples as Anna Karenina , Crime and Punishment , and Doctor Zhivago . This is made even worse under the White Russian Orthodox film censors.
As for Italy, consider the fact that you have Rome as a backdrop. As such, youi can pretty much bet American films like Spartacus and The Fall of the Roman Empire would be seen as an insult to Italian nationalism. You could probably see Federico Fellini film government approved versions of Julius Caesar and Titus Andronicus . Also, you might want to show a "Lieutenant Martinelli" on Star Trek: The Original Series .
As for other weird twists. Pop culture would cetrtainly be a lot darker witht he steady influx of Russian literature and cinema into the United States and Western Europe. As a given rule, most Russian cinema is depressing and often turgid material, (IMHO) citing such examples as Anna Karenina , Crime and Punishment , and Doctor Zhivago . This is made even worse under the White Russian Orthodox film censors.
As for Italy, consider the fact that you have Rome as a backdrop. As such, youi can pretty much bet American films like Spartacus and The Fall of the Roman Empire would be seen as an insult to Italian nationalism. You could probably see Federico Fellini film government approved versions of Julius Caesar and Titus Andronicus . Also, you might want to show a "Lieutenant Martinelli" on Star Trek: The Original Series .
Another sign of national pride and honor will be the opera. Just as the Bolshoi ballet was touted as one of the artistic virtues of the Soviet Union, receiving massive state funding, you can expect the opera, with Lucciano Pavarotti, Placido Domingo, and Jose Carreras would be honored fior their work at "La Scala" Opera School in Milan. One can almost imagine The Barber of Seville and La Traviatta transformed into propoganda pieces, extolling the virtues of the state and the tragedy of the individual.
Here's a thought: Why not have the Moon landing in 1972, after World War III? It would be particularly interesting to see Kennedy's reaction to his dream being successful. Maybe given the Conservative views of this JFK, the private sector is encouraged to get into space exploration and science much more so than OTL...
Some things that may be added to the timeline at this point are the post-war or war technological developments. Consider that you still have to deal with wartime creation of helicopters, anti-aircraft rockets, ICBMs, wireless phones, computers, and possibly even the Internet. As for the space program , just consider the "Dyna-Soar" program of 1965, James P. Hogan writes a lot about it.
Perhaps the government and companies of this ATL invest more money in Computer, VR, and other technologies than in OTL. Maybe the PC is invented in the early 1970's, and VR technology becomes a real phenomenon, leading to VR sites on the internet. We could potentially end up with a world that's up to twenty years more advanced than our in certain technologies. Imagine a society that's retained much of the same values and standards as the post-war era, suddenly confronted with cyber-punk type technologies. Sounds promising, doesn't it?
Here are some things that would mark the 1970s, "Second Baby Boom". First off, there will certainly be a lot more "Generation X" members born, unless they are prevented by the presence of birth control products. Second, with the war, there would certainly be another push for women's rights. By 1973, there will be a blossoming women's rights movement stronger than in OTL, with stronger roots in the "Rosie the Riveter" movement. Also there would certainly be a push for the possibility of women serving in combat positions. Just consider the fact that in WWII, there was the call by 1944 in OTL for women to enter the draft. With the 1970s, you would have Hustler magazine under Larry Flynt and Penthouse under Bob Guccione considered more mainstream. Also, you would have infamous porn stars such as John Holmes, Ron Jeremy, and Tracy Lords would be considered more respectable.
Mr_ Bondoc said:
Women's rights will indeed be more successful, albeit with more of a militaristic-conservative, non-Leftist bent to them. Porn may be less seedy and more respectable in this ATL, a direct result of the "Rosie the Riveter II" idea that will permeate from this timeline's feminism. Women's studies won't really occur as the precedent set in OTL for them of the "New Left" won't exist. However, it is quite possible that more attention will be paid to women throughout history and in society...
Birth Control products outside of Condoms won't really be that prevalent. In OTL, a Catholic came up with the idea for "the Pill." In this ATL, there will be more of a stigma attached due to the post-war conservative culture of the 1970's. We could end up with a world frozen in the 1940's-1950's when it comes to Sexuality. Maybe we have a gay movement gaining more strength in the 1970's, a kind of backlash to this prevailing societal attitude?
Well this is an interesting ATL. A US that's more socially conservative, but also more technologically advanced and less prejudiced than OTL. Talk about your neo-Conservative paradises.