Rumsfeldia: Fear and Loathing in the Decade of Tears

[Heavy]

I wonder what will be the fates of Rummy, Cheney et al when the feces hits the fan? Death, exile, life in prison in Fort Leavenworth?

I suspect a future excerpt from Gingrich's book will involve bitter recriminations directed at the "International so-called Criminal Court".

 

[Orville_third]

I wonder what will be the fates of Rummy, Cheney et al when the feces hits the fan? Death, exile, life in prison in Fort Leavenworth?

EDIT: Also, now that the Administration has apparently started a war on pornography - in the name of "national security" - with the shutting down of Penthouse and the imprisoning of Bob Guccione, I wonder what kind of backlash will arise now that millions of men (and probably a few women) see their porn being endangered? Maybe an XXX version of Prohibition, with illegal skin mags taking the place of bootleg alcohol? I can imagine some guy addressing an audience, grabbing an issue of Playboy or Penthouse and declaring "you'll take my porn from my cold, dead, sticky hands!!!"

Well, OTL, Edwin Meese tried to restrict pornography.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meese_Report

Of course, this also means no Omni magazine. (Guccione helped start that.)

 

[PMN1]

Okay that does it. Rumsfeld and Cheney killed the Internet. This is war. Total war.

/QUOTE]

Well, killed it in America.........

 

[Dunois]

As usual great updates but:

---------------------------------------------

Belper B

The second of two Advanced Gas Cooled Reactors completed near the town of Belper in Derbyshire, which went into commercial operation in 1982. Belper A and B were the first two of several AGCR reactors approved by the Healey government as part of the National Energy Self Sufficiency scheme. The program included plans for up to five additional nuclear power centres around the United Kingdom, all built in an effort to reduce dependence on costly imported oil and reduce pollution from coal emissions.

Belper B was designed to produce 1200 Mega Watts of power. However, from start-up, an increasing series of technical and administrative problems with this reactor eventually lead to a political crisis for the Labour government. The subsequent government shut it down.

To the chagrin of the residents of the nearby town the expression “a belper” became a widely used idiom for a thoroughly cocked-up job or a stupidly implemented plan.
-------------------------------------------------------------

Given that I am currently working on an AGCR station in Hartlepool, I think that you need to rethink this bit.

You have to realise that ALL AGCR stations, especially Dungeness B, and Hartlepool/Heysham 1 have been plagued with issues and took over a decade prior to being fully operational. Hell it took fifteen years for Hartlepool to go from digging the first shovel full of earth to exporting electricity to the grid.

From a technical standpoint, Belper is a very very poor site to build any kind of power station. Where is your cooling water coming from to begin with? The CEGB never ever considered inland sites for nuclear power stations, as providing water for the condensers is not a small business, we are talking about 16m3 a second of water here!

I am sorry but this passage is just not plausible at all given what I have just said. Having more reactors being build is very likely, but then with more past experience less errors will be made, as was shown by the last two AGR stations of Heysham 2 and Torness.

If you want to have something similar but plausible happening, I suggest the following alternative instead.
Have the North of Scotland Hydro Electric Board going ahead with their 1974 proposal of building Steam Generating Heavy Water Reactors at Stake Ness. The decision is made in say 1974 and by 1982 the station is still not operational, with defective pressure tubes among other things, forcing the whole thing to be rebuild from almost scratch.
This huge cock-up is consequently called "doing a Nessie" or "doing a stakie".

As a consequence this (never very tested) technology is hugely discredited and a shake up of the Scottish Electricity Boards is ordered. Nuclear in Britain will go on however and we may end up seeing more AGRs than OTL and more government money invested in the Dounreay breeders.


A note on Internet. ATL Internet may very well end up evolving along the lines of the French Minitel instead, being controlled by national postal companies and far less open to outsiders. This could still lead to something akin to what we have today, but in a different form. Booking a hotel through this network would still be possible, some kind of usenet might emerge, but we won't have facebook, twitter or blogs on the other hand.

 

[Historico]

ca. late 1989

Close shot on Dick Cheney's face sitting in a sharp business suit at an ornate desk. Around him it's all black, as if he is one with the darkness

His hand comes into shot, as he picks up a silver framed black and white photograph of Donald Rumsfeld.

DICK CHENEY: Nothing lasts forever...
as he puts down the photograph faced down on his desk. He then arcs his head back to come face to face with the viewers
DICK CHENEY: (shakes his head) Even the longest, most glittering reign...must come to an end...someday.

The expression on his face changes from a picture solemnity to a crafty smirk.

*******
more to comment on later

 

[LeX]

Cheney....you fucking bastard.

Also, loved the bit in the Kremlin with the story about the peasant.

 

[M. A. Dickens]

Well, killed it in America.........

That, and other stuffs they've been up to. *goes off to plot utter humiliation for those two in another TL*

Marc A

 

[Iñaki]

Originally posted by Drew
In the other, Bob Guccione, publisher of Penthouse Publications challenged the definition of communications infrastructure and the constitutionality of the Act, after Guccione had been arrested for making international phone calls to discuss the content of his magazine. The magazine itself was pornographic, and the Rumsfeld Administration argued that Guccione had effectively undermined U.S. National Security by presenting a “degrading” and “obscene” view of American culture, one which could be used as anti-U.S. propaganda and motivate foreign nationals to attack U.S. security and commercial interests as a result of “understandable outrage.”

Guccione was convicted at the District Court level, but won at the Appellate level. The Supreme Court upheld the District Court ruling in 5-4 decision.

As a result Penthouse publications was seized by the Federal government, and Guccione was sentenced to life in prison, although this was later reduced to fifteen years on appeal.

This is interesting, Playboy is suffering some kind of similar persecution? (although naturally Playboy is erotic not pornographic). If Playboy is not suffering a similar pressure without doubt Hugh Hefner could benefit a lot of the close of one of his principal competitors.

I suspect some of the models of Penthouse could end as Playmates of the 1980's (although naturally with not so explicit postures and situations)

 

[JacktheCat]

This is interesting, Playboy is suffering some kind of similar persecution? (although naturally Playboy is erotic not pornographic). If Playboy is not suffering a similar pressure without doubt Hugh Hefner could benefit a lot of the close of one of his principal competitors.

Hefner suffered a 'minor' stroke in 1985 OTL.

With the added pressure and stresses of TTL, I can easily see this being brought forward and being more serious (deadly?).

 

[freivolk]

I really like the developmnt of Kohl and Germany.

Just one question: There are often mentioned protest against new U.S. Missiles in Europe. Is there still a NATO Double-Track Decision ITL or do the Americans just mordernize their missiles?

 

[Iñaki]

Originally posted by JacktheCat
Hefner suffered a 'minor' stroke in 1985 OTL.

With the added pressure and stresses of TTL, I can easily see this being brought forward and being more serious (deadly?).

Hmm, if this happens so we could have a woman as maximum boss of Playboy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christie_Hefner

 

[Iñaki]

Originally posted by Drew
Many old line Communists resented this change, which encourage Ryzhkov to retire many old hardliners and open-up opportunities for a younger generation of technocrats. Ryzhkov reportedly became fascinated with Chile’s so called “Chicago Boys,” a group of young Chilean economists, most of who trained at the University of Chicago under Milton Friedman and Arnold Harberger, or at its affiliate in the economics department at the Catholic University of Chile. Essentially they achieved the opening of the Chilean economy at a time of strict political authoritarian rule. Ryzhkov was not interested in a complete free market approach, but he took from the Chilean example an idea of how to blend a more open economic system to a closed political order.

I expect that Ryzhkov only follows that could be positive from the Chicago Boys, the social consecuences of their measures I expect that he could avoid that dark side.

 

[Iñaki]

Originally posted by Drew
Russian: Серге́й Фёдорович Ахроме́ев; b. May 5, 1923 – August 24, 1991)

So Sergey Akhromeyev dies like in OTL? A lot of coincidence, or there is a coup in august 1991 like OTL ?-in OTL he commited suicide-

Originally posted by Drew
Noted as a leader by his military trainers, Lebed increasingly became the center of a group of young officers opposed to the polices known in the west as MBA Communism.

The officers includes Boris Gromov?

 

[teg]

Great updates! A lot of people have made comparisons to For All Time: I like how this TL is now featuring things that look like they come straight from that TL, like the Chinese superflu and the casual (possible) use of tactical nuclear weapons in South Africa, yet it's eased into them so gradually and smoothly that it never stopped feeling 'normal'. Which is far more horrifying.

I particularly liked the sequence with George VII and Healey because it felt realistic and also Drew has correctly shown the constitutional issues that would arise upon the incapacitation of a Prime Minister (more deeply explored in Meadow's "The Accidental Prime Minister"). Because the last time the UK actually had a PM die in office was 1865 when the PM was still largely appointed by the monarch and you could take a few days to do it at your leisure, there is no constitutional succession in place for who becomes PM if a PM dies in office or is incapacitated. And Deputy PM is not a position that exists in every cabinet, as Drew says it tends to be an office created to shuffle the chief member of the awkward squad to. So having Foot as 'coordinator' and caretaker was quite correct.

To be honest I would be very surprised if some sort of epidemic didn't start in China ITTL; the country has had what amounts to no health care for years, a regime that is probably nuts enough to think developing a super-virus is a good idea (the Lesser Mao probably thought all 'pure Maoist Chinese' are immune or something like that). If something doesn't come out of southern Africa as well, I'll be amazed. (Another thought that occurs to me is that, sadly, a lot of southern Africa's wildlife is going to become extinct or extinct in the wild).

I also liked the scene with the king and Healey talking about the flu, it was almost a Crowning Moment of Awesome for George VII. Loved the bit about organic food as well, some things are never going to change...

I forgot to mention that I was interested that "Behind the Fortress Walls" was published this early (I had pictured it happening in thw 1990s, even though the USSR likely won't fall) and that Chernenko of all people is suspected of being the author.

Also, everyone, remember Drew had a segment written in the present day by a bitter Chinese writer that demonstrates the world is still in one piece then, though badly battered. Also interestingly that part says that China has managed to reunify, albeit as a wreck, so Cheney's plans will ultimately come to naught...though India, perhaps not unconnectedly, has fragmented.

I got the impression that the update you are mentioning implies China is still broken up, just starting to show the vaguest signs of recovery.

I wonder what will be the fates of Rummy, Cheney et al when the feces hits the fan? Death, exile, life in prison in Fort Leavenworth?

I'd imagine a locked room with a pistol and a bottle of gin will be the fate of Rusmfeld and Cheney, possibly together (That definitely isn't going to breed lots of slash fiction. )

I really like the developmnt of Kohl and Germany.

Just one question: There are often mentioned protest against new U.S. Missiles in Europe. Is there still a NATO Double-Track Decision ITL or do the Americans just mordernize their missiles?

I get the impression that Germany is going to become the center of a unified western Europe which is a third power bloc against the modernized Soviet Union and the increasingly crazy United States. Of course I expect that by the end of the 1980s the United States will be breaking up into smaller states. It wouldn't surprise that if the Jefferson state initiative is sabotaged by Rumsfeld and Cheney, then the west coast will break away when Rumsfeld finally gets what is coming to him. Ditto the north-east down to New Jersey and New York, maybe even Pennsylvania. Then there is also Puerto Rico and Guam...

teg

 

[Iñaki]

Drew I think this guy could have a very good career in TTL in the Soviet Union, in OTL he was bypassed by Gorbachev.

He had a fame of being an expert on agriculture, boss of the region of Rostov on Don, he was victim of the run to the power of Gorbachev in OTL, here I think that could occupy a post in the Poliburo of 1980's

This is a translation from the wikipedia.ru:

Bondarenko, Ivan Afanasievich

11th First Secretary of the Rostov Regional Committee of the CPSU

16 November 1966 - 25 July 1984
Preceded by: Mikhail Solomentsev
Succeeded Alexander Vlasov
13th Chairman of the Rostov Regional Council Executive Committee

29 December 1964 - 16 November 1966
Preceded by: Chairman of the Executive Committee of the Regional Council of Agriculture Ivan Ilyich Zametin
chairman of the executive committee of the regional council of industrial George D. Neros
Succeeded Vladimir Filippovich Mazovka

Birth: 5 June 1926
Pervomaysky region , Kharkiv region , Ukrainian SSR , USSR
Death: 16 February 2009 (82)
Rostov-on-Don , Russia
Buried: Northern Cemetery
Party: CPSU
Degree: PhD


Afanasevich Ivan Bondarenko ( 5 June 1926 , the village Alekseevka , Kharkiv Region - 16 February 2009 , Rostov-on-Don ) - Soviet party and state leaders, the first secretary of Party Committee of Rostov ( 1966 - 1984 ). Hero of Socialist Labor , Honorary Citizen of the city of Rostov -on-Don, PhD. Content [убрать]
1 Biography
2 Achievements
2.1 As part of the Rostov region
2.2 As part of the Rostov-on-Don
3 Awards and Titles
4 Memory
5 Links
6 Sources

[ edit ]
Biography

He was born on June 5 1926 in the village Alekseevka now Pervomaisky district, Kharkiv region (Ukraine) into a peasant family. Ukrainian .
He began his career as an agronomist, he worked in the Black Sea Agricultural Institute.
At the age of 17 went to the war , graduated in 1945 in Berlin .
He began his career agronomist .
Since 1959 is on party work,
since 1964 - Chairman of the Executive Committee of the Rostov Regional Council of People's Deputies,
from 1966 to 1984 - the first secretary of the Party Committee of Rostov.
Member of the Central Committee of the Communist Party in the years 1971-1986. Member of the CPSU since 1950 .
The deputy of the Union of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR 11.07 convocations of the Rostov region.
Since 1984 was retired.

Lived in Rostov-on-Don. Died February 16 2009 . He was buried in the North Cemetery in Rostov-on-Don.
[ edit ]
Achievements
[ edit ]
As part of the Rostov region

During his leadership the Rostov region, the region has been constructed:
Shakhtinsky Cotton Mill,
Donetsk excavator plant,
Mine them. Lenin Komsomol
Azov baby food factories,
Plant " Atommash . "
and other industrial and social importance.

Ivan Afanasievich made a significant contribution to the socio-economic development of the city of Rostov-on-Don, in the construction and reconstruction of industrial enterprises, healthcare, education, science and culture, housing, improvement of the city. Over the period of his leadership have been constructed:
Station
The city airport
River station
Don embankment
Voroshilov bridge
Began building the West and North of residential areas of the city, within the city limits was introduced settlement "Alexandrowka."


Also, to see how Gorbachev avorted the posible career of Bondarenko in the Politburo look at this (very interesting information): http://books.google.es/books?id=ipYD0dxjlf8C&pg=PA123&lpg=PA123&dq=ivan+bondarenko+patterns+power&source=bl&ots=6I7jKfGR&sig=6eY-iTBZUAzFAwyBwAdY4A3bU9w&hl=ca&sa=X&ei=gqkHUcb_IZOGhQfPvoCYCQ&ved=0CDkQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=ivan%20bondarenko%20patterns%20power&f=false

 

[Historico]

Wow, what an interesting series of updates Drew. I don't even know where to start in terms of questions, as its kinda of overwhelming...from the Chinese-born Superflu-to Cheney's secret shenanigans to get a Chinese national to take the blame for spread it...throws so many things up in the air. So it wont be surprising that people will cry "Henny Penny" when the shit actually comes down lol. Here are some of things that I would like eto get clarified...

1. Which past-President will serve as model for Rummy? Presidents IOTL(Reagan looked up to FDR for certain qualities, Obama to Lincoln etc) and ITTL(Nixon constantly felt-like Eisenhower was looking over his shoulder, Agnew aspired to be Truman, Gavin-Washington, and Wallace-I'm not sure a touch of LBJ perhaps) have often re-examined the careers and personality's of the men who served before them to find a template on how to govern. Who do you think Drew, that Rumsfeld might try to pattern himself after?

IMO, I think Rumsfeld would find kindred spirits with Old' Hickory himself Andrew Jackson. As the only other President outside of the founding fathers, who had an political age named after himself, I think it's a smart allusion for Rummy to make. Although unlike Rumsfeld, Jackson received a majority of the popular vote, while loosing due to having plurality in the EC in his first election, while Rumsfeld did the opposite. The idea of using one's own personality shape the corridors of democracy in the country to create a working coalition is largely what Rumsfeld wants to do.

Also Jackson's model of a strong executive would be a great one for Rumsfeld to pattern himself after. I personally think that Rumsfeld would should begin to Jackson more in his speeches. These are some of the things that Rumsfeld could use to support his own policies: (1)Jackson paid down the national debt, (2) fights with one Justice Marshall, (3) enacted the spoils system, and (4) Berated obstinate Southern officials in the nullification crisis. I think the only issue that Rumsfeld would have with Jackson is that he did not stand for his fourth election and ran for a third term lol! But there are some differences like Rumsfeld is not targeting a race within United States for auspicious reasons and shipping them halfway across the continent to a predetermined territory...

2. The alternate Cheney doctrine I have to admit is so crazy that it's brilliant. Taking OTL 2004 Rove's ideas of permanent republican majority based on low turnout models and applying them to the global world is sheer maniacal genius. The question is, how are we as a nation going to be able to secretly fund all of those separatist movements? If it breaks, which I don't think it will ITTL's current political climate, atleast Cheney could state that it was in the national interest. We did it with Colombia to get the canal built, so why not do it in China or inother places to see that America's interests are protected

3. Whats all the hubub on this thread about wanting to see the Rumsfeld presidency taken down in one-term? With the inclusion of Rumsfeld, America has seen seven Presidents ascend to the office and for both internal and external influences failed to secure their own re-election to the office. It's obvious that confidence in America's ability to lead in world affairs(not so much since we "won" ITTL's Vietnam) but more so confidence has dropped so much so domestically since such instability shaken the economic and political undercurrents of the American system. The last time America went thirty years without electing a President to a second term in office, we ended up with a civil war...

At the end of the day, American's will be craving stability, and strong leadership. As long as economic conditions ITTL improve I think Rumsfeld has the his election in the bag. The Democrats are in much worse shape(It doesn't help when the administration is making conscious political decisions to further divide your party) that an IOTL, so the question is who else can get the job done than Rummy. The more interesting thing to see if Cheney can engineer a grassroots movement around repeal of the 22nd Amendment to make Rummy eligible for 1988 and beyond. It was hinted at in some of the early memos, but to get it off the ground is going to be tough slog to try get done in six years or less. It's something that people often use as POD's for Modern TL's, but usually use pure hand-wavium(the 22nd amen. fails to pass or something) to stop the third term roadblock. I for one, am I excited to see if Drew has figured out a plausible way to get it done.

Keep it comming Drew

 

[John Farson]

The last time America went thirty years without electing a President to a second term in office, we ended up with a civil war...

Indeed... Notice how in the update it was mentioned that the US is/will be experiencing the worst political chaos since the Civil War?

At the end of the day, American's will be craving stability, and strong leadership. As long as economic conditions ITTL improve (1) I think Rumsfeld has the his election in the bag. The Democrats are in much worse shape (2) (It doesn't help when the administration is making conscious political decisions to further divide your party) that an IOTL, so the question is who else can get the job done than Rummy. (3) The more interesting thing to see if Cheney can engineer a grassroots movement around repeal of the 22nd Amendment to make Rummy eligible for 1988 and beyond. It was hinted at in some of the early memos, but to get it off the ground is going to be tough slog to try get done in six years or less. It's something that people often use as POD's for Modern TL's, but usually use pure hand-wavium(the 22nd amen. fails to pass or something) to stop the third term roadblock. I for one, am I excited to see if Drew has figured out a plausible way to get it done. (4)

1) That is the 64,000 dollar question, isn't it? From what I'm seeing, things don't look to be improving, and Rummy's administration isn't really doing anything to improve things. If anything, they're making things worse.

2) They are suffering from a kind of schizophrenia, yes. OTOH, they haven't suffered any OTL 1972 or 1980 -style landslide defeats. And the margins in Congress are pretty close. All it would take is a couple of liberal GOP senators to defect to the Democrats to give them back control of the Senate. And I don't thing the GOP is nearly as impregnable as you think they are.

3) Rummy and Cheney aren't operating in a vacuum, no matter how much they'd want otherwise. The opposition aren't idiots and they'll adapt and come up with countermeasures of their own.

4) Repealing any Amendment is a tall order, the 22nd doubly so. Oh, they'll attempt to, I'm sure, that is if Rummy continues as POTUS after 1984. Note: I didn't say "re-elected" because I fear if he does get another term it will only be through a process that makes a complete and utter mockery of democratic elections, tainting US society and politics for decades to come.

 

[teg]

2. The alternate Cheney doctrine I have to admit is so crazy that it's brilliant. Taking OTL 2004 Rove's ideas of permanent republican majority based on low turnout models and applying them to the global world is sheer maniacal genius. The question is, how are we as a nation going to be able to secretly fund all of those separatist movements? If it breaks, which I don't think it will ITTL's current political climate, atleast Cheney could state that it was in the national interest. We did it with Colombia to get the canal built, so why not do it in China or inother places to see that America's interests are protected

The problem is that Cheney is trying to break up states which a) are US allies and b) have nuclear weapons (Britain, France, Japan, possibly West Germany at some point). That in and of itself could ensure things get messy once this gets out (and get out it will, of that I am sure)

3. Whats all the hubub on this thread about wanting to see the Rumsfeld presidency taken down in one-term? With the inclusion of Rumsfeld, America has seen seven Presidents ascend to the office and for both internal and external influences failed to secure their own re-election to the office. It's obvious that confidence in America's ability to lead in world affairs(not so much since we "won" ITTL's Vietnam) but more so confidence has dropped so much so domestically since such instability shaken the economic and political undercurrents of the American system. The last time America went thirty years without electing a President to a second term in office, we ended up with a civil war...

At the end of the day, American's will be craving stability, and strong leadership. As long as economic conditions ITTL improve I think Rumsfeld has the his election in the bag. The Democrats are in much worse shape(It doesn't help when the administration is making conscious political decisions to further divide your party) that an IOTL, so the question is who else can get the job done than Rummy. The more interesting thing to see if Cheney can engineer a grassroots movement around repeal of the 22nd Amendment to make Rummy eligible for 1988 and beyond. It was hinted at in some of the early memos, but to get it off the ground is going to be tough slog to try get done in six years or less. It's something that people often use as POD's for Modern TL's, but usually use pure hand-wavium(the 22nd amen. fails to pass or something) to stop the third term roadblock. I for one, am I excited to see if Drew has figured out a plausible way to get it done.

Keep it comming Drew

I suspect that Rumsfeld will be 're-elected' in 1984 but the tactics used to do this will undermine the US political system even more and lead to a coup or a revolution sometime in 1989/1990. I suspect the final crisis will be sparked by Rumsfeld using a some what 'interesting' interpretation of the US 22nd amendment to get a third term. Basically, while the 22nd amendment says nobody can be elected to a third term, it does not say that they cannot serve a third or fourth or fifth term. I suspect that Rummy will end up putting forward two nice, pliable puppets while running (and winning, of course) a seat in the House of the Representatives. Rumsfeld then is elected Speaker of the House and on January 20th 1989, both the president and vice-president resign.... say hello to the new boss, the same as the old boss.

teg

 

[Expat]

Intriguing update, really makes me want to know more. The tidbit about Theodore Roosevelt Island being overrun is personally interesting to me. IOTL it's a very pleasant place with well-maintained causeways that ride over the forested ground (so it being "over-grown" isn't really an issue.) It was certainly this way in the mid-80s and I'm not sure when they were first built. Is Liddy's description indicative of a general trend of poor maintenance of federal property, or is it just indicative of Liddy's distaste of a bit of woodland?

 

[Archibald]

Basically, while the 22nd amendment says nobody can be elected to a third term, it does not say that they cannot serve a third or fourth or fifth term.
I suspect that Rummy will end up putting forward two nice, pliable puppets while running (and winning, of course) a seat in the House of the Representatives. Rumsfeld then is elected Speaker of the House and on January 20th 1989, both the president and vice-president resign.... say hello to the new boss, the same as the old boss

Talk about a loophole, never realized that. Reminds me of the Putin / Medvedev trick.
Seriously, could this be done on a legal basis ? Of course an unfortunate accident could happen to the puppets