What happened here?

Xen · Jun 19, 2009

From a TL I am currently working on. Lets see who can get the closest to what I have been writing by looking at this map from New Years Eve 2008. The POD occurs in late WWII, with the US Army liberating Prague, and the Czech Republic (though not Slovakia) falling into the western sphere when the Iron Curtain descends on Europe.

Blue Max · Jun 19, 2009

Stalin dies in 1944; Eastern Europe is Disarmed and demilitarized instead of Puppeted?

Mao never wins in China, so Chiang wins the country, because Japan surrenders without Soviet War Entry?

Codae · Jun 19, 2009

It's interesting to see four whole continents listed as unadulterated "democracy".

vultan · Jun 20, 2009

I'm sorry, I just don't see this happening.

Blue Max · Jun 20, 2009

You know, I think what has to happen here is the Soviet Union goes democratic in WW2.

That's not as bizarre as it sounds. If Stalin dies, the whole Soviet State could well have a meltdown. Do not forget that Alexandr Kerensky offered to help the Soviet Union during its invasion--suppose that Stalin dies in 1943 and the disorganization leads to terrible routs of the Red Army?

And then, with Germany seemingly advancing towards Moscow, The Soviet Government renounces all of its ideological prerogatives with the single goal of surviving as a nation.

The Soviet Union, by 1946, has emerged as a shaky leftist-socialist government that ultimately goes Democratic, and remains allied with the West.

Such a situation would lead to early democratization of Eastern Europe; it could well turn into a global impetus for democracy globally.

That means no cold war, no iron curtain, and with some kind of RoC forming and Mao withdrawing to Xinjiang, and Democracy simply having a extremely strong hand. Completely plausible, if somewhat utopian.

Xen · Jun 20, 2009

vultan said:
I'm sorry, I just don't see this happening.

You know this map comes from the governments of nations in 1997 with some changes such as Syria, China and Iran becoming democracies (not all that far fetched).

My other changes are nations added in the Middle East and Africa (ie Kurdistan, and Darfur).

So with a different series of world events, different leaders, reacting differently to different situations, couldn't the world turn out a little more blue?

Theodoric · Jun 20, 2009

Which of the Levantine countries is a single-party democracy?

Xen · Jun 20, 2009

Here's another map of the same world as it appeared in 1985, just one year before the collapse of the Communist block. The collapse of communism started in 1986, and with a handful of nations still clinging to communist rhetoric, is considered by many to be an ongoing process.

The world at the end of the Cold War

Xen · Jun 20, 2009

Theodoric said:
Which of the Levantine countries is a single-party democracy?

In the original map? None. Unless you use the liberal variation of Levantine and include Iraq (Central Iraq). Israel, Lebanon, Syria and East Palestine (Jordan) are either full blown Democracies (such is the case of Israel and Syria) or Limited (Emerging) Democracies (Lebanon and East Palestine)

Dathi THorfinnsson · Jun 20, 2009

1) is that a communist Kurdistan? if so, how did it come to be?
2) is there a democratic Aceh, or is that just like a thick border on the north end of Sumatra
3) Absolute Monarchy in Afganistan. Hunh?!? (has ANY central authority had control over the rural areas since before the Raj?)

Xen · Jun 20, 2009

Dathi THorfinnsson said:
1) is that a communist Kurdistan? if so, how did it come to be?
2) is there a democratic Aceh, or is that just like a thick border on the north end of Sumatra
3) Absolute Monarchy in Afganistan. Hunh?!? (has ANY central authority had control over the rural areas since before the Raj?)

1) Early Cold War clash, look up the Republic of Mahabad, this is where Kurdistan comes from, and is a major reason why Iran has become democratic
2) Just a flaw in the map, Indonesia is the same as OTL
3) Afghanistan was a monarchy before the Communist Coup in the mid-1970's, the King was recognized as the ruler of Afghanistan by the international community, now how much authority he actually wielded outside of the cities is something different, I do know he was respected in the nation, even after the fall of the Taliban. He died in 2004 or 2005 something like that.