What if Henry V died before going to war for France?

[vandevere]

According to the Shakespearean play, the French DID try to have him murdered before he set out for the war. What if they succeeded? Or if he had died through accident or illness?

The next King would have most likely been Thomas, 1st Duke of Clarence, the next oldest son of Henry IV, would have become King...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_of_Lancaster,_1st_Duke_of_Clarence

 

[takerma]

Well this is would be one of the simplest an likeliest POD ever if he died from getting shot through the face with an arrow.

In OTL, surgeon managed to build a special device to extract arrow lodged in his skull safely, then he healed and survived.

 

[vandevere]

I was wondering more about the quantity, and the size of the Butterflies. No Henry V means no Agincourt, which means no marriage to Catherine Valois, which means no Henry VI and no Henry Tudor either!

 

[Matteo]

Not sure at all. His brother Bedford could have done as well.

 

[vandevere]

Not sure at all. His brother Bedford could have done as well.

Thomas was the older brother however...

I was just trying to imagine what kind of butterflies we would get in 15th-16th Century England what with Henry VI, and Henry Tudor-AKA Henry VII-both butterflied away.

What does that do to the Wars of the Roses? Would there even *BE* a War of the Roses?

Where would that leave Richard Plantagenet, 3rd Duke of York, and his children, Edward, George, and Richard-OTL EdwardIV, George, Duke of Clarence, and Richard III?

What would the historical changes look like?

 

[Just a Rube]

We almost certainly don't get a War of the Roses. The new king probably won't be married to Catherine of Valois, and thus won't be passing hereditary insanity to his heir. There is probably a reasonably healthy succession, rather than OTL where Richard of York had gotten used to effectively being heir and feuding with the Beauforts.

For that matter, the Hundred Years War might not start back up either, so the English may be able to hold on to their remaining continental possessions for longer.

 

[Thoresby]

While the OTL triggers for the War of the Roses aren't there recent events shows that when you have a very powerful Magnate with a plausible claim to the throne who for whatever reason falls out with the current King there is a strong possibility of Civil War. Henry IV, ex-Henry Duke of Lancaster had shown that it was possible to overthrow a sitting Monarch if you were strong enough to make it stick and thanks to the combination of very generous grants and marriages the Duke's of York were incredibly rich and very powerful. They might not win but if they get pissed off enough with the King they will probably try and considering we are talking about 15th Century nobleman i.e. a mix of being incredibly touchy and enormously sensitive to the slightest "slight" on their honour and extreme ambition treated as a essential personal quality the odds of a Yorkist-Lancastrian war a pretty high.