WI/AHC: Communist China in a Nazi-American Cold War

Obviously very implausible but so is basically every Nazi Victory scenario, so...

Let's just say that for whatever reason the Nazis are much MUCH more successful during Barbarossa, with Leningrad, Moscow, and Stalingrad falling by 1943 and from they are the war drags on into a horrific stalemate that ends with a (probably) unofficial ceasefire by 1945, with the rump Soviet Union being left with only Eastern Russia (and it's Siberian and Central Asian territories obviously). By the end of the war the Soviet Union is a devastated de-facto military junta closely aligned with the United States (the new partyline is that America is a progressive force for change actually and communists should support it as a lesser of two evils).

Meanwhile despite being thrown out of North Africa, the WAllies fail to make amy Headway into invading Europe proper, even with use of nuclear weapons in the late stages of the war. A bitter piece of exhaustion and war weariness is made in 1947. A war ravaged but largely victorious Germany is the overlord of continental Europe.

Meanwhile Japan is starved, bombed, and nuked into submission, unconditionally surrendering by late 1946.

So the usual assumption is that the KMT ends up coming out on top in these types of Nazi Cold War scenarios, presumably because of significant American support (and perhaps more importantly the lack of Soviet aid).

But that said, are there any circumstances where despite all of these changes the CCP still comes out the Victor of the Chinese Civil War in control of at least most of mainland China? And if they do win by the early to mid 50s, what does this alternate Maoist China look like, after potentially an even longer Civil War and a horribly mangled Soviet Union to it's North that is more or less, at least for the time being, a de-facto American US client state. How does this alt-PRC likely influenced the Cold War and the global communist movement by extension?
 
Interesting concept. You'd have to think with a rump trans-Ural USSR that it would inevitably be pulled into a PRC orbit.

Depending on who the leadership is in this theoretical Cold War Nazi Germany, you could actually see them being supported by the Nazis in order to undermine a US-backed Guomindang China. Lots of examples of ideologically-counterintuitive realpolitik in our Cold War, seems likely there would be in this one too.

A PRC "third force" in the Cold War would suit Nazi propaganda perfectly. They would synthesise their anti-Bolshevism with Yellow Peril narratives and represent themselves as defending European civilisation from "Communist Asiatic hordes under the thrall of International Jewry". Would probably even find some support amongst crackpots in the West, especially in places like Australia that have an unfortunate history of Yellow Peril scares.
 
Last edited:
Semi-joke scenario: At some point the PRC asks to "join" the Soviet Union, which in practice would work the exact opposite way for obvious reasons.
As a joke scenario it works, but in reality the PRC would maintain independence with the USSR as a satellite state, and importing what technical advisors were still there and taking effective control of the vast timber and mineral resources of Siberia, and eventually the oil too. How that would shake out economically would be interesting; on paper they have greater potential, but they're still gonna have Maoist mismanagement, and unlike in our Cold War, there isn't a great technical development partner OR an obvious market, unless they can make some rapproachement with America or Nazi Germany. Both countries wouldn't be able to openly trade with China for manufactured goods, but you never know; in this world they might just not have "Made In China" labels and thats enough. Or maybe a greater degree of economic integration with South American and African markets.
 
But that said, are there any circumstances where despite all of these changes the CCP still comes out the Victor of the Chinese Civil War in control of at least most of mainland China?
Don't ever underestimate how incompetent Chiang and the Nationalists were, by all accounts they should have won with every advantage in our world but instead fell apart in 3 years.
 
Don't ever underestimate how incompetent Chiang and the Nationalists were, by all accounts they should have won with every advantage in our world but instead fell apart in 3 years.
You remember that the main difference between Mao and Chiang is that Mao has always been the better strategist of the two, while Chiang mostly survived on his political skills. Chiang divided his own army while taking the brunt of the Japanese army, while Mao waited in Yan’an Soviet rebuilding his army again (after losing 90% of it to the Long March).
 
I realised I actually didn't address the OP's question of how the CCP win in a US-NG Cold War scenario. Rump Soviet support isn't completely out of the question, even if its (presumably) less than in OTL.

But ignoring that, there's still a major hearts and minds issue with the early 1940s Guomindang vis-a-vis the rural peasanty. Mao's land reform policies are still attractive to the majority of farmers and theres always the question of what happens with the KMT-Japan situation in this scenario. I think the most likely way the CCP win is sweeping into areas vacated by the Japanese, particularly those outside of the major raillines and urban centres such as Shanghai.
 
I can only imagine what the Nazis would think of a Communist China…
Insane Yellow Peril shit almost certainly. Especially if if, I'm not mistaken, vague ideas of an long off eventual race war against Asia that the Nazis had historically come to the forefront.

Especially if China decides to take a more conciliatory approach to the United States, which do to what eventually historically happened in OTL and practical needs for outside help in it's internal development without the early aid it got from the Soviet Union in OTL is certainly a possibility.
 
Insane Yellow Peril shit almost certainly. Especially if if, I'm not mistaken, vague ideas of an long off eventual race war against Asia that the Nazis had historically come to the forefront.

Especially if China decides to take a more conciliatory approach to the United States, which do to what eventually historically happened in OTL and practical needs for outside help in it's internal development without the early aid it got from the Soviet Union in OTL is certainly a possibility.
Definitely possible. It all really depends on how a post-war USA deals with the issue of the European governments in exile in their colonies. If they force decolonisation then a rapprochement with the ChiComs. If they keep the Free French in Indochina though, the Chinese are definitely going to assist liberation movements to their south. Same with the Dutch East Indies and Burma. What happens to India will be very interesting in such a scenario. A Hindu nationalist India run by some successor to Azad Hind isnt out of the question as a reaction to perceived Chinese infiltration (really mostly homegrown movements like the naxalites). After all I'm sure the Nazis will use their weird esoteric false history about Vedic Hyperboreans to diplomatic use with Hindu nationalists. All doable if Britain tries harder to hold onto India to use its wealth to rebuild Britain at the expense of the Indian peoples.
 
Insane Yellow Peril shit almost certainly. Especially if if, I'm not mistaken, vague ideas of an long off eventual race war against Asia that the Nazis had historically come to the forefront.

Especially if China decides to take a more conciliatory approach to the United States, which do to what eventually historically happened in OTL and practical needs for outside help in it's internal development without the early aid it got from the Soviet Union in OTL is certainly a possibility.
Ironic since Hitler called Japanese and Chinese people “honorary aryans” or something like thy. A Red-Yellow Peril conspiracy theory perhaps?

Also, a capitalist America and a communist China relationship sounds nice.
 
Especially if if, I'm not mistaken, vague ideas of an long off eventual race war against Asia that the Nazis had historically come to the forefront.

That was very much Himmler's view. The theme of a coming titanic struggle between the 'Nordic' people and Asia featured prominently in several of his speeches, especially in the '30s. Actually he initially talked about that a good deal more than about the Jews (the SS only started becoming really active in anti-Jewish policy from 1938 onwards).
 
This is not as implausible as it seems at first glance. The CCP mostly won on their own and while the OTL Soviet invasion of Manchuria boosted them significantly, the Nationalists' fragmentation and incompetence could have easily provided Mao another avenue to victory at some point in the 1940s or early 1950s. We can assume that even with the Third Reich undefeated, the Japanese would still lose.

I can see the Nazis eventually working with the PRC, providing them tech and such in exchange for rare earth metals or something. Their ideologies are not even that incompatible (Nazis like red white and black, the Cultural Revolution posters were all about red white and black) and both regimes have a penchant for mass death and persecution in the name of national progress.

prc-reich-alliance copy.png

D'aww, aren't they just made for each other? :rolleyes: (Images via Wikimedia Commons)
 
Last edited:
I can see the Nazis eventually working with the PRC, providing them tech and such in exchange for rare earth metals or something. Their ideologies are not even that incompatible (Nazis like red white and black, the Cultural Revolution posters were all about red white and black) and both regimes have a penchant for mass death and persecution.
IMO Ideological differences will be too great to overcome in the long term, so beyond some trading and mutual diplomatic recognition, I don’t think an alliance would be workable. Especially if the PRC promotes the radical anti-colonial foreign policy it pursued ITTL, which would no doubt spook the Nazis’ European puppet states with colonies in Africa and Asia.
The natural ally for a Communist China ITTL will be the United States. Mao already had warm feelings towards the Americans after the Dixie mission and I think it likely that once the dust has settled from his defeat of the KMT he’d turned towards America.
Frankly an interesting idea, I think, is if the KMT on Taiwan switch sides and becomes a kind of fascist Cuba (a German aligned state in an American dominated region). Chiang had previous for being cozy with the Germans. There’s the Sino-German cooperation and close ties between the KMT and Nazi regimes during the 1930s. German officers trained the Chinese Revolutionary Army, German businesses and the Reichsbank had hundreds of millions invested in the Chinese economy, Chiang’s son was even a member of the Wehrmacht. Now the Americans would probably come down pretty hard on this but that benefits the PRC just fine…
 
Frankly an interesting idea, I think, is if the KMT on Taiwan switch sides and becomes a kind of fascist Cuba (a German aligned state in an American dominated region). Chiang had previous for being cozy with the Germans. There’s the Sino-German cooperation and close ties between the KMT and Nazi regimes during the 1930s. German officers trained the Chinese Revolutionary Army, German businesses and the Reichsbank had hundreds of millions invested in the Chinese economy, Chiang’s son was even a member of the Wehrmacht. Now the Americans would probably come down pretty hard on this but that benefits the PRC just fine…
KMT Taiwan basically ending up as North Korea would be an interesting spin on things I suppose
 
I can see the Nazis eventually working with the PRC, providing them tech and such in exchange for rare earth metals or something. Their ideologies are not even that incompatible (Nazis like red white and black, the Cultural Revolution posters were all about red white and black) and both regimes have a penchant for mass death and persecution in the name of national progress.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure newly invigored Yellow Peril racial insanity, extreme anti-communism, and the rump Soviet Union more than likely ending of as a PRC satellite state is going to put a stop to anything of that sort.
 
I can see the Nazis eventually working with the PRC, providing them tech and such in exchange for rare earth metals or something. Their ideologies are not even that incompatible (Nazis like red white and black, the Cultural Revolution posters were all about red white and black) and both regimes have a penchant for mass death and persecution in the name of national progress.
Christ, what a hollow analysis. Since when have countries based an alliance on something as simplistic as aesthetics?
 
Top