WI: Saint Rurik?

[Ultima Ratio]

Okay, so this might be a stretch, but since so much of the man is clouded in myth, I think it might happen.

What if Rurik, not long after his conquest of Novgorod (but before taking Kiev) meets a group of Catholic missionaries from Francia and decides for political reasons to convert to Catholicism. Perhaps he sees the common religion as a way to unite his Norse and Slavic subjects. I know the butterflies are huge, should he succeed, but what could be the implications?

I think this is a criminally underrated topic, would love to read your thoughts.

 

[bbctol]

He almost certainly would have encountered Byzantine Rite missionaries rather than Roman Rite (the concept of Orthodox/Catholic split was just begininning to develop in Rurik's time, but they were theoretically a unified church.) Patriarch Photius was actively trying to convert the Rus' when Rurik was alive, while I don't think any Francian missionaries were making it out there, and even if the POD declares that they were, since it's still technically a unified church, his successors and the nation would end up embracing the practices of the nearby, more important Byzantines regardless. I don't know what the effects of a Christianization of Russia a hundred years early would be, but if you're really wondering about a Catholic Russia, I think you'd need a different POD.

 

[Ultima Ratio]

He almost certainly would have encountered Byzantine Rite missionaries rather than Roman Rite (the concept of Orthodox/Catholic split was just begininning to develop in Rurik's time, but they were theoretically a unified church.) Patriarch Photius was actively trying to convert the Rus' when Rurik was alive, while I don't think any Francian missionaries were making it out there, and even if the POD declares that they were, since it's still technically a unified church, his successors and the nation would end up embracing the practices of the nearby, more important Byzantines regardless. I don't know what the effects of a Christianization of Russia a hundred years early would be, but if you're really wondering about a Catholic Russia, I think you'd need a different POD.

Yes, I'm thinking of a Catholic Russia, sure, but also an early Catholic Russia, just to spice things up.

While the schism hasn't happened yet, Rurik could take the Latin rites and script, couldn't he?

 

[bbctol]

While the schism hasn't happened yet, Rurik could take the Latin rites and script, couldn't he?

Yes, but Christianization is a centuries-long process. In Bohemia, for example, the first Premyslid joined the Byzantine rite, but Western influences eventually took hold. It was actually a pretty interesting sort of proxy conflict between the Eastern and Western churches to convert the Slavs; the Bulgarian Khan played the East Franks and Byzantines off each other, promising to take the others' rite if they wouldn't grant him assistance. WI Catholic Bulgarians is plausible; is there a strategic importance of Rus' to Western kings that would make them want to invest in a long Christianization process? Maybe, but they were busy converting Scandinavia during the time period, too.

(I don't want to rain on your parade! It's a cool idea, I'm just trying to figure out a way to make it plausible.)

 

[SealTheRealDeal]

You'd probably need to make western europe recover from its early medieval rut sooner, and have Roman Christianity extend further east at an earlier date. Increasing the volume of trade, facilitated by perhaps a Catholic power extending out across Pannonia to the Carpathian's could help. Perhaps hastening the development of a European naval power to chase away pirates would also help. As could punting the Magyars over to [literally anywhere else*]. Perhaps some changes in people/personalities could also help stifle the tend towards decentralization.

From there you could get a Western Church which is able to say "these Vikings need to be taught a lesson" and after proto-crusading through Scandinavia the Varangians could be treated as an extension of the Vikings, and from there the Rus leadership may feel compelled to convert.

*though Azerbaijan would be my pick personally.

 

[Ultima Ratio]

I don't want to rain on your parade! It's a cool idea, I'm just trying to figure out a way to make it plausible.

Your input is greatly appreciated. I do know this is not an easily workable scenario.

Varangians could be treated as an extension of the Vikings, and from there the Rus leadership may feel compelled to convert.

May be a long shot, but what if Rurik, being a Varangian, converted some time along his travels before he went to Russia? Once he is there and is established, he could send for missionaries to Francia in a bid to solidify his rule.