WI: Yamamoto himself leads the Kido Butai in PH attack- better, worse or same outcome?

[Changundramon]

Might be a trivial POD, but what if, instead of the surface expert Nagumo, Yamamoto himself lead the massed carrier strike on Oahu? Would there be any changes to how effective the overall strike is?

Another question: would deploying midget submarines to hit after the attack have produced better results than the abortive attempt preceding the strike?

Inspired by the well-made series on the World War Two Youtube channel.

 

[UCB79]

Maybe Yamamoto, after smashing the ships of the USN, then makes sure there’s a SECOND attack on
PH’s dock facilities & oil fields? I think he would have, instead of doing what Nagumo did IOTL(ignore
them & turn about for Japan). Of course this meant that despite all the damage it suffered, PH was still a
functioning naval base. If it hadn’t been, one has to think that the USN would have found it MUCH harder
to win in the Pacific having to rely on bases thousands of miles to the East in California. Again, I just can’t
believe that Yamamoto(who was aggressive & brash where Nagumo was cautious)would have made this
blunder.

 

[wcv215]

Of course this meant that despite all the damage it suffered, PH was still a
functioning naval base. If it hadn’t been, one has to think that the USN would have found it MUCH harder
to win in the Pacific having to rely on bases thousands of miles to the East in California. Again, I just can’t
believe that Yamamoto(who was aggressive & brash where Nagumo was cautious)would have made this
blunder.

The Japanese would not have hit those targets in another strike. They were way down at the bottom of the priorities list. And if they did the losses would be severe.

 

[Carl Schwamberger]

I won't touch the PH debate, but will point out Yamamoto was running other operations, the invasion of Mtaylasia & the Phillpines and preparations for the first island seizures in the Dutch East Indies. There were preriprial operations against the Wake and Guam In December and the important seizure of Rabaul in January. Yamamoto had more than Nagumo to supervise. He was commander of the fleet. If he hies off to Hawaii in late November it means he's demoted himself for a couple weeks and some (probably less capable) deputy is in charge of everything else.

 

[Carl Schwamberger]

The Japanese would not have hit those targets in another strike. They were way down at the bottom of the priorities list. And if they did the losses would be severe.

Yamamoto orders were to get in and get out fast, no screwing around & risking the six carriers. As late as the sixth Nagumo had full authority to abort the attack if he thought the US fleet was sorting against him. Neither of the two had any idea of the actual capabilities of the Pacific fleet & they assumed it more capable in certain respects.

 

[Changundramon]

I won't touch the PH debate, but will point out Yamamoto was running other operations, the invasion of Mtaylasia & the Phillpines and preparations for the first island seizures in the Dutch East Indies. There were preriprial operations against the Wake and Guam In December and the important seizure of Rabaul in January. Yamamoto had more than Nagumo to supervise. He was commander of the fleet. If he hies off to Hawaii in late November it means he's demoted himself for a couple weeks and some (probably less capable) deputy is in charge of everything else.

Are there alternate candidates to lead the operation? Carrier warfare enthusiasts.

 

[Carl Schwamberger]

Don't know enough about IJN naval leadership. Even Yamamoto was obsessed with the big battleship fight, & still saw the carriers as auxiliaries. This & fuel limits explains 90% of his strategic and operational decisions until he died. By the end of 1942 it did not matter. Their elite naval air wing was destroyed and they could not rebuild it.

 

[ShySusan]

Are there alternate candidates to lead the operation? Carrier warfare enthusiasts.

Jisaburō Ozawa would have been an excellent choice. He was a gifted officer and one of the largest proponents of Naval Aviation in the Imperial Japanese Navy. While I doubt he does anything different than Nagumo at Pearl Harbor, Ozawa being in command of the Kido Butai could have far ranging effects on battles like Coral Sea and Midway.

 

[USS_Ward]

Jisaburō Ozawa would have been an excellent choice. He was a gifted officer and one of the largest proponents of Naval Aviation in the Imperial Japanese Navy. While I doubt he does anything different than Nagumo at Pearl Harbor, Ozawa being in command of the Kido Butai could have far ranging effects on battles like Coral Sea and Midway.

I concur, Ozawa was a very competent and aggressive naval commander, i feel like he could get a minor victory at coral sea (sink Lexi and severely cripple or sink Yorktown which could have serious repercussions for the USN in the short term) but will probably lose 1 or 2 carriers at Midway, which is still vastly better then OTL IJN losses at Midway.