Yeah I already googled XM-70. I remember reading about the joint US-German project but didn't remember anything about the variable suspension.
Alternative History Armoured Fighting Vehicles Part 2
- Thread starter Claymore
- Start date
- Status
Driftless
Donor
The MBT-70 was saddled with the same 152mm combo gun/launcher as the Sheridan. If I remember right, the whole drive train was very complex (the hydro-pneumatic suspension and all), and the extended problems with the main gun caused the German to pull out, and later the US killed the project. The Germans used the lessons learned to build the Leopard 2 and the US to build the M1 Abrams.
One of the theories was the low-rider suspension allowed the tank to snuggle into a better hull-down configuration.
One of the theories was the low-rider suspension allowed the tank to snuggle into a better hull-down configuration.
Well the Swedes did get it to work with their S-tank.
I did a German TD with variable suspension from a Third Reich victorious timeline over on the old Alt-AFV thread so I can easily imagine the Germans getting it to work but the MBT had to many other complex features beside the suspension.
The gyroscopic position for the driver for instance has to be the craziest thing in a tank I've ever heard of, sounds more like something from a spaceship than a tank.
As was pointed out, it's an MBT-70/KPz 70. The US was testing the adjustable suspension back during the T95 medium project and the MBT-70 saw just about every experimental feature possible incorporated into the design. Which inevitably killed the project, although as was pointed out, it did lead to both the M1 Abrams and Leopard 2.
Actually, the MBT-70 uses a different 152mm gun/launcher, the XM150, which is longer and much more powerful than the 152mm XM81 on the Sheridan.
The Japanese Type 64 also successfully used an adjustable suspension: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYfXIUPEOTU
Yeah, although I've never seen anything on Germany possibly using the 152mm armed version. One would think that they had to have at least tried the 152mm version before going with their own 120mm.
Germany did start with the 152mm version, but early on had problems with the cost per AT shot, reliability (even worsened by addressing the first issue) and necessity (the ranges envisioned simply were estimated useable in central Europe less than 20%). An intermediate idea was to combine both versions of armament on the same basic, but of course that was dropped quickly.
Still one shortlived successor project, the Leopard2FK or Eber had the 152 and some further features of the MBT 70, though it was quickly cancelled in favour of the more conventional Leopard2K.
Claymore you remember my failed Idea for a M35 2 1/2 ton truck fitted with a BM-27 like rocket launcher, well after thinking about it could a BM-24 work in that kind of set up?
Okay gentlemen - a question how would you modify a Panzer IV or T - 34 to survive a post apocalyptic world? For example could you modify the air intake and filters so that the crew would not have to wear a gas mask ( I would still expect that a gas mask to be worn as a failsafe).
Would the armour provide sufficient protection from light acidic rain for instance?
Would the armour provide sufficient protection from light acidic rain for instance?
I definitely think that is a better fit and should be within the load capacity of the truck. I will see if I can put together some imagery for you.
The likes of Pz IVs and wartime T-34s were never designed with overpressure and filtration systems in mind and consequently, would require considerable work to acheive a clean internal environment. Having said that, it depends on whjat it is you are trying to keep out. Working with chemical agents requires a much more robust filtration system and toxic free environment than working with radioactive fallout (particulate v molecular sizes are the issue). Good housekeeping, washdowns and avoiding hot spots will keep most fallout at bay.
As for light acid rain the armour will cope (it better had or it isn't going to be much cop at keeping out anything else) - again good housekeeping and washdowns will keep the paintwork looking spiffing!
The environmental threat is from radiation with the plague having already decimated the remaining human population. I guess for me it is also having the characters recognise the problem and jury rig a solution...
The best protection from radioactive fallout is time and distance. Clearly the further away you keep yourself from the stuff the better off you are likely to be. There a 3 general types of radiation to consider: Alpha - relatively low energy particles whose effects are stopped by a thin protective layer such as human skin - only really dangerous if ingested; Beta - Slightly more energetic but stopped by a thin layer of metal - tank armour would be extremely effective; and Gamma - this is the high energy bad boy that takes several inches of lead to provide protection and will cause whole body irradiation and the classic radiation sickness symptoms. Avoiding and/or cleaning is the best response. Oral/nasal protection will stop the majority of ingestion issues.
The danger of radiation from fallout also decreases with time, as radioactivity decays exponentially with time, such that for each factor of seven increase in time, the radiation is reduced by a factor of ten. For example, after 7 hours, the average dose rate is reduced by a factor of ten; after 49 hours, it is reduced by a further factor of ten (to 1/100th); after two weeks the radiation from the fallout will have reduced by a factor of 1000 compared the initial level; and after 14 weeks the average dose rate will have reduced to 1/10,000th of the initial level.
You would probably want to beef up the engine air filters on your post-apocalypse tank, reduce the amount of external stores to an absolute minimum to ease brushdown/washdown and perhaps utilise some sacrificial tarpaulin covers which can be thrown away to reduce the dust/rain contaminating the hull of the vehicle.
This recent discussion of post-nuclear vehicles gave me an idea - could you guys please design my Susi APC for me?
It is a wheeled vehicle designed and built under the Finnish National Administration in my P&S spinoff. Here is the original reference from the TL:
For its outward appearance, I think something from between the Sisu XA-180 (some former Sisu people involved in the Pasi design might work with the Susi), the Tatrapan (with which the Susi would share a very similar chassis) and the Saxon. The appearance should have a somewhat post-apocalyptic feel but not overtly so.
Have at it, if you find this of interest.
It is a wheeled vehicle designed and built under the Finnish National Administration in my P&S spinoff. Here is the original reference from the TL:
This is a 6x6 vehicle built in between 2000-2010 (or circa two decades after the nuclear war), by a poor and heavily militarized but orderly post-nuclear survivor state that has some industrial capability and access to 70s-80s level technology. The Susi is designed primarily for crowd control and potential action against insurgents/bandits armed with rifle caliber weapons. It has a crew of 2-4 and the capacity to carry circa 10 soldiers. It should have some protection against radiation, but then it is not envisioned to be used in areas with heavy radiation, rather in towns and other areas generally considered "safe". The Susi is only built in very limited numbers (<50) and seen as a prestige item by TTL's Finnish military commanders.
For its outward appearance, I think something from between the Sisu XA-180 (some former Sisu people involved in the Pasi design might work with the Susi), the Tatrapan (with which the Susi would share a very similar chassis) and the Saxon. The appearance should have a somewhat post-apocalyptic feel but not overtly so.
Have at it, if you find this of interest.
I find the idea very interesting and if I can find some decent line drawings that I can work off of, I'll give it my best shot.This recent discussion of post-nuclear vehicles gave me an idea - could you guys please design my Susi APC for me?
It is a wheeled vehicle designed and built under the Finnish National Administration in my P&S spinoff. Here is the original reference from the TL:
This is a 6x6 vehicle built in between 2000-2010 (or circa two decades after the nuclear war), by a poor and heavily militarized but orderly post-nuclear survivor state that has some industrial capability and access to 70s-80s level technology. The Susi is designed primarily for crowd control and potential action against insurgents/bandits armed with rifle caliber weapons. It has a crew of 2-4 and the capacity to carry circa 10 soldiers. It should have some protection against radiation, but then it is not envisioned to be used in areas with heavy radiation, rather in towns and other areas generally considered "safe". The Susi is only built in very limited numbers (<50) and seen as a prestige item by TTL's Finnish military commanders.
For its outward appearance, I think something from between the Sisu XA-180 (some former Sisu people involved in the Pasi design might work with the Susi), the Tatrapan (with which the Susi would share a very similar chassis) and the Saxon. The appearance should have a somewhat post-apocalyptic feel but not overtly so.
Have at it, if you find this of interest.
Speaking of the MBT-70, if that thing was somehow adopted into US service at least what kind of modernizations do you think it would have had to accrue to keep up? I can't help but ask, I've become rather fascinated with the thing lately for some reason.
Vjacheslav Malyshev
Banned
Well it could mount a 120mm, so probably that when the US realizes that their missile system for it is terrible.
I definitely think that is a better fit and should be within the load capacity of the truck. I will see if I can put together some imagery for you.
Further to my last...
- Status