The biggest reason land vehicles don't get as big as sea vehicles has to do with the interface with the ground; they can be made bigger when the interface is made artificially smooth, even, and stable. A much wider gauge railway standard, or perhaps better a standard of multiple parallel tracks kept absolutely perfectly equidistant (and some other general strengthening of the railway surface) could allow monstrous armored trains with enormous railway guns, though the vulnerability of the tracks would be a huge issue. I think that's the least unrealistic path to the largest remotely sensible land combatants, though. Schwerer Gustav was not really mobile (because the railway network I suggest here didn't exist), but was far, far larger than any tank, weighing as much as a small destroyer.
How do we get "land battleships" to viability?
- Thread starter Cunningham Loco & Machine
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Basically Guy de Maupassant's 1880s 'The Necklace' but with monstrous landships instead of diamonds...and disproportionately more ironic...
The "Land Battleship" could become semi-common if the military of one or more major powers was carrying out unrealistic drills and wargames, and the 20's and 30's seemed unlikely to result in war.
Another off the wall possibility:
The Great War ends with some sort of peace treaty that leaves Germany and France as major powers.
The Char 2C looks fit to start a new and EXPENSIVE arms race. Disarmament talks in the early 20's put strict limits on the number of "Heavy" tanks, meaning any tanks over a set tonnage. They don't put limits on the SIZE of said tanks. The numbers would be interesting to figure out.
In a postwar universe where Brest-Livosk or similar is signed with the Kerensky government, and sticks, and Germany manages a peace in the west, an arms race gets costly.
Perhaps the following ratios:
Germany: 100
France: 100
Ukraine (German client state) 10
Poland (German client state) 10
Russian Republic: 40
Britain: 50
USA: 100
Japan: Likely not even involved
This is a very rough back of the envelope figure, and could be way off, depending on the postwar situation. With no tonnage limit, the urge is there to go BIG...and when real war breaks out, the land battleships turn out to be less useful than the regular tanks. But in peace, they're like Graf Spee: Prestige units.
The landship treaty might even be integrated with the naval treaties.
Another off the wall possibility:
The Great War ends with some sort of peace treaty that leaves Germany and France as major powers.
The Char 2C looks fit to start a new and EXPENSIVE arms race. Disarmament talks in the early 20's put strict limits on the number of "Heavy" tanks, meaning any tanks over a set tonnage. They don't put limits on the SIZE of said tanks. The numbers would be interesting to figure out.
In a postwar universe where Brest-Livosk or similar is signed with the Kerensky government, and sticks, and Germany manages a peace in the west, an arms race gets costly.
Perhaps the following ratios:
Germany: 100
France: 100
Ukraine (German client state) 10
Poland (German client state) 10
Russian Republic: 40
Britain: 50
USA: 100
Japan: Likely not even involved
This is a very rough back of the envelope figure, and could be way off, depending on the postwar situation. With no tonnage limit, the urge is there to go BIG...and when real war breaks out, the land battleships turn out to be less useful than the regular tanks. But in peace, they're like Graf Spee: Prestige units.
The landship treaty might even be integrated with the naval treaties.
Define "viability". I'd build a few of these Landkreuzer-type vehicles as showpieces around military bases to be used for propaganda, deception (convincing the enemy's public these are threats and there are more), and simply public entertainment, like they could have newsreels featuring tours inside and the machine firing its guns.
Best case scenario is the public is enthralled, supports giving more money to the Army, and causes other nations to divert resources toward similar machines. In an actual war, these ideally draw a lot of attention away from more valuable targets and act as bait for ambushes. Note that even if they're barely mobile a capital ship gun still packs a punch, as does every other gun these things would have. Although if your propaganda machine is that close to the frontlines then something is going very wrong.
Overall not the best use of resources but there's been worse. Personally I've always liked this idea but for a 4-10 meter bipedal mecha--expensive showpiece machine for propaganda that could actually still fight if needed.
Best case scenario is the public is enthralled, supports giving more money to the Army, and causes other nations to divert resources toward similar machines. In an actual war, these ideally draw a lot of attention away from more valuable targets and act as bait for ambushes. Note that even if they're barely mobile a capital ship gun still packs a punch, as does every other gun these things would have. Although if your propaganda machine is that close to the frontlines then something is going very wrong.
Overall not the best use of resources but there's been worse. Personally I've always liked this idea but for a 4-10 meter bipedal mecha--expensive showpiece machine for propaganda that could actually still fight if needed.
The Karl-Gerät 040/041 seems like a good candidate for a chassis for such a beast, for a World War 2 version. Remove the 60cm mortar and add a turret from a Hipper class cruiser or something. And a bunch of antiaircraft guns. Of course it could not have much armour. And it could only move at 6-10 km/h. And only had a range of 60 km. But it sure would look awesome on parade.
"The Karl-Gerät proved to have no problems moving over normal soil, but under no circumstances was it allowed to make turns on soft soil lest it throw a track." says Wikipedia.
en.wikipedia.org
"The Karl-Gerät proved to have no problems moving over normal soil, but under no circumstances was it allowed to make turns on soft soil lest it throw a track." says Wikipedia.
Karl-Gerät - Wikipedia
Yes, I was going to mention them.
The Hovertanks in the Hammer's Slammers series almost qualify also but similar problems of needing advanced technology.
the only way I see is some technology advances that require a vehicle THAT big but provides a way to protect it. Say laser weaponry good enough to detonate incoming artillery shells and missiles. Running that would require a LOT of power. Nuclear or a pile of gas-turbines and bunkers of fuel. You end up with a big vehicle that is basically a mobile anti-air battery to shield a detachment of ground forces. An airborne platform may make more sense...but a ground vehicle is there 24/7 and its sensors are not looking down into the ground-clutter..
Suppose we turn this question on its head in a way. If, in say 1925, <pick a country>'s military was told by the legislature/dictator/whoever, "You need to build a super tank--minimum weight 150 tons, 2 75 or larger guns plus anti-aircraft." (AA in this time can be a few machine guns.)
Now the designer has to build the thing, and get as much utility out of it as possible. There WILL be land battleships--what good can we get out of them?
Now the designer has to build the thing, and get as much utility out of it as possible. There WILL be land battleships--what good can we get out of them?
RamscoopRaider
Donor
The Karl-Gerät weighed 124 tons, a Main battery Turret from a Hipper class was 250 tons. The only armament it could carry is maybe a twin 15cm turret with splinter armor from a DD, and that is maybeThe Karl-Gerät 040/041 seems like a good candidate for a chassis for such a beast, for a World War 2 version. Remove the 60cm mortar and add a turret from a Hipper class cruiser or something. And a bunch of antiaircraft guns. Of course it could not have much armour. And it could only move at 6-10 km/h. And only had a range of 60 km. But it sure would look awesome on parade.
"The Karl-Gerät proved to have no problems moving over normal soil, but under no circumstances was it allowed to make turns on soft soil lest it throw a track." says Wikipedia.
Karl-Gerät - Wikipedia
I'd say they only qualify on weight, 170-190 tons. On Armament they have 1 main gun, a coax and a pintle mount, maybe you can count the emergency APS and minsweeping gear too, but that's basically what a modern tank carries
Largest tanks I can find that could be starting points:
en.m.wikipedia.org
en.m.wikipedia.org
en.m.wikipedia.org
en.m.wikipedia.org
en.m.wikipedia.org
ARL Tracteur C - Wikipedia
O-I super-heavy tank - Wikipedia
Mendeleev Tank - Wikipedia
K-Wagen - Wikipedia