Sir John Valentine Carden Survives. Part 2.

12 March 1942. Catterick, England.
12 March 1942. Catterick, England.

Maj-Gen Evelyn Fanshawe (GOC 11th Armoured Division), having just returned from a Senior Officers’ Training Course, had his subordinates in to try to disseminate some of what he had picked up. Fanshawe’s enthusiasm for the Course was somewhat unfamiliar to the others in the room. They usually dreaded these meeting because Fanshawe tended to pick everything apart and be generally dismissive of whatever ‘learning’ he was supposed to have picked up.

When CO of the Queens Bays in France in 1940, he’d seen his command decimated in an attempt to recapture bridges over the Somme from the Germans. Promoted to command 20th Armoured Brigade in 6th Armoured Division, then given the task of forming 11th Armoured Division, he had constantly argued from experience that any successful battle would need the combined efforts of tanks, artillery and infantry, preferably with air support.

It seemed that the War Office in the latest Training Course had picked up on this and much of what Fanshawe had preached was now becoming doctrine. The fighting in Greece, North Africa and now Malaya had all shown that cooperation between tanks and infantry was essential. The proposal to change the Basic Organisation of the Armoured Divisions to an Armoured Brigade, an Infantry Brigade, with Division level artillery and supporting elements was now going to be implemented in May.

Fanshawe didn’t say to his subordinates that he’d also been informed that he would soon be leaving the Division to command the Royal Armoured Corps Training Establishment. It was right and fitting for the new look Division to have a new GOC, but he felt that the last year he’d done as good a job as he possibly could. The fact that he’d been chosen to take over RAC Training was a reflection of that.

The details that he did give were that 11th Support Group (Brigadier Edward Jones) would become the HQ of the Divisional Royal Artillery, with two more Artillery Regiments to join the 13th RHA, 75th Anti-Tank Regiment and 58th Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment.

Brigadier Christopher Peto’s 29th Armoured Brigade (24th Lancers, 23rd Hussars, 2nd Fife & Forfar Yeomanry) would be staying with the Division. Brigadier Otho Prior-Palmer’s 30th Armoured Brigade (22nd Dragoons, Westminster Dragoons, 1 Lothian & Border Horse) would be reassigned, though where exactly Fanshawe didn’t know. As he understood it, Fanshawe believed that the Infantry Brigade would be coming from 53rd (Welsh) Division which had exchanged an Infantry Brigade for a Tank Brigade as one of the experimental Mixed Divisions.

One of the things that Fanshawe had been leading the way on was the use of the Support Group’s three battalions of Motor Infantry. The 8th Bn Rifle Brigade, 12th Bn Kings Royal Rifle Corps and 12th Bn Green Howards were supposedly to be farmed out, one battalion each to the Armoured Brigades and Support Group. Trying to assault German positions on the Somme with a troop of tanks supporting a C0mpany of Infantry, without artillery support, had failed miserably. In all exercises that 11th Armoured Division had undertaken (both Tactical Exercises Without Troops ‘TEWT’ and field exercises) Fanshawe, with his subordinates, had worked out what they believed to be the best way to coordinate an attack on a strong enemy position using what was at his disposal. The idea some other Infantry Division/Tank Brigade would be on hand to clear strong positions, had led to the notion that Armoured Divisions, like the Cavalry of old, would be the exploitation force, one the enemy’s defences had been breached.

Unfortunately, that tactical doctrine hadn’t been much help in the war up until now, and had led to far too many deaths, in both infantry and tanks. One of the fundamental problems for the Armoured Division was because there was only one Royal Horse Artillery Regiment attached, it was always under powered. Added to the burden was that 2-pdr tank in the Valiant I* or other cruiser tanks couldn’t support the infantry except against enemy tanks. This meant that an enemy anti-tank gun screen became a major liability to an Armoured Division. 11th Armoured Division, when confronted with such a problem had learned to work as one, an Armoured Brigade and using the three Infantry Battalions as if they were one Infantry Brigade. The second Armoured Brigade could attempt to find a way around the enemy, or act as a distraction, or just remain in reserve until a breakthrough could be effected.

In their exercises, Fanshawe’s three Infantry Battalions had worked out various ways to support the tanks, or have the tanks support them, clearing out an enemy position. Like all Armoured forces, the need for more Close Support tanks to have an auxiliary artillery function had been an important lesson, and the original six per Regiment had been trebled to eighteen. Each Squadron therefore had four troops of three tanks, one of which had the 3-inch Howitzer, and two 2-pdrs. The Squadron HQ had two of each tank. With six CS tanks per Squadron rather than per Regiment, the ability of the Armoured Regiment to support infantry with HE in reducing enemy resistance was enhanced.

The Valiant II* that were replacing the I* would improve on this situation as the 6-pdr gun at least had some HE capacity, though still limited. It wouldn’t be until the Victor with the new 75mm HV’s dual capacity meant that the distinction between gun and CS tanks would be able to disappear. With the arrival of another two Artillery Regiments would be another element in making the Armoured Division capable of all its functions.

What Fanshawe and his men had achieved in the last year was to bring together a new Division from scratch, train it up and then write the training manual that was about to be disseminated throughout the Royal Armoured Corps, and indeed the Army as a whole. What worked for the Armoured Division in terms of tactics of cooperation between tanks, infantry and artillery would also work with Infantry Divisions supported by Tank Brigades.
 
I am forced to wonder if this includes President M L Quezon and his wife, and his deputy,

RR.
No, as you'll see in a forthcoming episode.
Still with British Pulling more people and gear out it means less people will be on that damned death match may be a drop in the bucket but it spares more than a few a rather grizzly end.
I was just thinking that with the fall of Bataan about a month ahead of OTL, the 'Battling Bastards' will be one month better off in terms of being on half/quarter rations. I don't imagine it will make a huge difference to Japanese brutality on the transfer to the POWs camps, but perhaps the men marching won't be quite as weak as they were OTL.

I've edited the previous post to take out the MacArthur overriding the sub's captain. It makes no real difference, it could happen to any submarine.
Allan
 

Ramp-Rat

Monthly Donor
It might be argued some things haven’t changed much in Singapore then, @Ramp-Rat?

In any event, who the US press want as Supreme Allied Commander Indo-China & South-West Pacific is irrelevant, beyond what they can convince the Senate to lobby FDR for. And at this stage, ITL, who FDR wants for that role is arguably just as academic.

There is even a lack of US candidates, now that Mac’s likely out of the way, and barring Admiral Hart, I can’t immediately think of any.

While the principal site of the main prison in Singapore has remained the same for a long time, the present prison is not the same one as existed in the nineteen forties. If you go on line there are a number of documentaries about the modern Changi, while the regime inside seams harsh by modern western standards. The facilities, food and cells put virtually all prisons in the UK and US to sham, and it is only those in the Scandinavian countries and Germany that are better. As for someone other then Hart to be the candidate for the position of SAC South West Pacific, side note no way is Indo-China going to be included, I too can not think of anyone else to assume the position.

RR.
 
If the dispute over the route of the submarine took place before sailing, and perhaps in the presence of a higher naval rank, could McArthur enforce his wish?
 
I know it was an obsolete weapon, but could an Ordnance QF 18-pounder on an armored chassis appear on "colonial" battlefields? Some kind of quasi-Stug, maybe Australian made?
 
I know it was an obsolete weapon, but could an Ordnance QF 18-pounder on an armored chassis appear on "colonial" battlefields? Some kind of quasi-Stug, maybe Australian made?
I believe it's to big for the Valiant to mount it easily (at least in its turret, and if you're going for casemate, you can move up to the 25-pounder anyway), and the Victor can probably mount a 25-pounder, so not much point.
 
@focus9912, the one thing that the British Generals and Colonial Administration don’t have to worry about is any American or other journalist based in Singapore. He or She will be subjected to the press censorship regulations in place, and failing to comply will ensure that they can in time, write an interesting peace about the conditions in Changi, which was then as it is now the principle prison in Singapore. Screaming about their First Amendment rights and freedom of the press, is going to do no good, legally the First Amendment doesn’t apply outside of the USA, and practically they have only the press freedom that the authorities will allow. They can not publish anything without permission, nor can they send by mail or cable anything that the authorities prohibit. Once in Singapore you either obey the rules or you will find yourself swiftly eating Congee , which is the local equivalent of Porridge, standard fair in British prisons.

RR.
I think that I prefer this approach. It makes the American Congress decision much easier. No multipolar world. No Atlantic Charter. No
First Amendment. Just the Soviet Union and the States.

There are now three European totalitarian entities. Germany, the USSR and the United Kingdom. No one wants to listen to Orwell anyway.
The Americans simply send money and equipment. Not their fleets or troops. No bickering about who is in charge. Let the Europeans sort
it all out; killing each other in the process. The Europeans go out with some dignity, instead of being toadies and poodles to the Americans
and Russians for the next forty five to seventy five years.

As Winston remarked after the war, "We killed the WRONG pig"! I'm sure that "Uncle Joe" and Winston can settle on the line of demarcation
at the Meuse. Of course, it sucks to be the Dutch S.S.R. where all that effort went to keep the NEI, when Stalin orders it given to Sukarno or
whoever. Krushchev and Taft can sort it out in the Fifties once Stalin passes!
 
I think that I prefer this approach. It makes the American Congress decision much easier. No multipolar world. No Atlantic Charter. No
First Amendment. Just the Soviet Union and the States.

There are now three European totalitarian entities. Germany, the USSR and the United Kingdom. No one wants to listen to Orwell anyway.
The Americans simply send money and equipment. Not their fleets or troops. No bickering about who is in charge. Let the Europeans sort
it all out; killing each other in the process. The Europeans go out with some dignity, instead of being toadies and poodles to the Americans
and Russians for the next forty five to seventy five years.

As Winston remarked after the war, "We killed the WRONG pig"! I'm sure that "Uncle Joe" and Winston can settle on the line of demarcation
at the Meuse. Of course, it sucks to be the Dutch S.S.R. where all that effort went to keep the NEI, when Stalin orders it given to Sukarno or
whoever. Krushchev and Taft can sort it out in the Fifties once Stalin passes!
That might have been the case, had Hitler not declared war on the USA.
 

Ramp-Rat

Monthly Donor
@allanpcameron, thanks for the update in regards to President Quezon, as it clarifies to my mind a very important question. And FDR, is definitely going to have a strong, ‘ we must relieve the Philippines’ lobby led by Quezon to contend with. However it will not have anywhere near the strength that the similar lobby led by MacArthur had, and so FDR will have more wiggle room to play with.

RR.
 

Garrison

Donor
@focus9912, the one thing that the British Generals and Colonial Administration don’t have to worry about is any American or other journalist based in Singapore. He or She will be subjected to the press censorship regulations in place, and failing to comply will ensure that they can in time, write an interesting peace about the conditions in Changi, which was then as it is now the principle prison in Singapore. Screaming about their First Amendment rights and freedom of the press, is going to do no good, legally the First Amendment doesn’t apply outside of the USA, and practically they have only the press freedom that the authorities will allow. They can not publish anything without permission, nor can they send by mail or cable anything that the authorities prohibit. Once in Singapore you either obey the rules or you will find yourself swiftly eating Congee , which is the local equivalent of Porridge, standard fair in British prisons.

RR.
Also I have to wonder is anyone going to actually care about conditions inn Changi jail? I mean assuming the overwhelming majority of the prisoners there will be Asians and the USA is I assume still going to round up large numbers of Japanese-Americans and stick them in camps like Manzanar?
 
I believe it's to big for the Valiant to mount it easily (at least in its turret, and if you're going for casemate, you can move up to the 25-pounder anyway), and the Victor can probably mount a 25-pounder, so not much point.

I certainly didn't mean Victor.
Maybe the Valiant, but it's valuable in its original configuration.
There were other British tanks that had already become obsolete.
There shouldn't be many of them, several dozen pieces, rebuilt in a not quite official way. Deployed in a limited battlefield to support infantry?
 
That might have been the case, had Hitler not declared war on the USA.
That's the point. Hitler made it easy for the British, by declaring war.
onthe USA.

I understand that the American Constitution does not apply outside
the States or Territories. If the Germans attack a commissioned US
warship, the ROE allows defensive measures, including sinking.

The British never agreed to the principles of FDR's Atlantic Charter.
The bluster of Arsenal of Democracy, etc. ends now the previous
nonsense of the past Wilsonian Principles. The British and French
reneged on the 14 Points of the Armistice.

Empires Uber Alles have been the focus of statecraft in Europe for
perhaps the past five centuries. If Mercedes Benz produces the Trabant,
better for Chrysler, Ford and GM.
@allanpcameron, thanks for the update in regards to President Quezon, as it clarifies to my mind a very important question. And FDR, is definitely going to have a strong, ‘ we must relieve the Philippines’ lobby led by Quezon to contend with. However it will not have anywhere near the strength that the similar lobby led by MacArthur had, and so FDR will have more wiggle room to play with.

RR.
Isn't President Quezon dying of TB?
 

Garrison

Donor
I certainly didn't mean Victor.
Maybe the Valiant, but it's valuable in its original configuration.
There were other British tanks that had already become obsolete.
There shouldn't be many of them, several dozen pieces, rebuilt in a not quite official way. Deployed in a limited battlefield to support infantry?
I would check here:

Because I'm sure someone has come up with precisely such designs.
 
I certainly didn't mean Victor.
Maybe the Valiant, but it's valuable in its original configuration.
There were other British tanks that had already become obsolete.
There shouldn't be many of them, several dozen pieces, rebuilt in a not quite official way. Deployed in a limited battlefield to support infantry?
Most other tanks struggle with the 6-pounder IIRC, so a bigger gun still probably wouldn't do well.
 
More development is good it means there is going to be more time to disseminate everything they learn since the old really hot theater is out east and the Germans are going to be in for a rude shock when they face British Forces again.
 
More development is good it means there is going to be more time to disseminate everything they learn since the old really hot theater is out east and the Germans are going to be in for a rude shock when they face British Forces again.
Especially as (since Japan had notoriously crap tanks) that theatre will be fought with second line equipment (at least early on) which may lead to Germany under estimating just how capable what they eventually face can do. Even when top.of the line gear is deployed the overwhelming superiority may still lead the Nazis to underestimate it since obviously the Japanese are not Aryans and no true army of the Master race could possibly lose the way they are...
 
Especially as (since Japan had notoriously crap tanks) that theatre will be fought with second line equipment (at least early on) which may lead to Germany under estimating just how capable what they eventually face can do. Even when top.of the line gear is deployed the overwhelming superiority may still lead the Nazis to underestimate it since obviously the Japanese are not Aryans and no true army of the Master race could possibly lose the way they are...
Indeed Hitler’s infamous comment that the fall of Singapore was a “defeat”* was probably the only time he and Churchill agreed on anything during the war - apart from not trusting Stalin.

*IIRC the whole quote was that it was a defeat for the whole Aryan race.

@Ramp-Rat; yes, on YouTube Changi Prison does look modern, shiny and nice like the rest of Singapore. I meant rather the willingness to be authoritarian.

And of course, another excellent update.
 
I believe it's to big for the Valiant to mount it easily (at least in its turret, and if you're going for casemate, you can move up to the 25-pounder anyway), and the Victor can probably mount a 25-pounder, so not much point.
what about a 13 pdr?
 

NotBigBrother

Monthly Donor
So 20 years later, an expedition to a small pacific island find Mac and co hiding out, unaware the war ended long ago?
The pacific equivalent of the Frisian Islands...
That would inspire to create some TV series. At first producers would try to make a story about courage, hardship and survival, but later, after hearing about misadventures of the castaways, it would be decided to make it comedy.
DM: "It was supposed to be a three day trip!"
 
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