But would the conclave want a englishman to the pope when they can elect an italian instead?
The Prince of the Roses - A Tudor TL
- Thread starter BlueFlowwer
- Start date
certainly they can, in Otl Reginald Pole was about to become Pope, with many Italians among the eligible candidates ( Reginald did not become the new pontiff simply because a vote form was lost, without that loss nothing and no one would have taken away his chance to become Pope ), furthermore the king of France holds a privilege called " Jus Excluisivae ", which allows him to prevent the election of a candidate who is not to his liking, if the French cardinals use him to stop the Italian and Spanish favorites, in particular as soon as a stalemate is reached, they will look for a compromise candidate as soon as possible, it is Wolsey who is the most suitable for everyone ( both for France, both for Spain, both for the HRE and for England )
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I'd like to see that happen though. If only to see how alternate Alternate History can get...
I am sure that some other tl will make a Pope Wolsey, but not mine. I already broke the Hapsburgs, that is pretty extreme.
Do I need to? I'm not very inclined to kill Louise for Claude. Besides someone needs to raise Margaret of Denmark-Austria to be a proper dauphine now that Anne de Beajue has left the picture. Rip to my best girl.
Claude always gets shafted in %99 of all the timelines on this site.
Agreed. And I have a TL in which she is in a much better situation than OTL
Chapter 8 - 1522
Chapter 8 - 1522
Henry could hear the sobbing all the way down the corridor. Anxiously, the king strode towards the chambers as fast as he could, while the whispering courtiers slunk out of his way. The king flung the door open and strode in to find a despairing scene taking place. Catherine had crumpled down on the floor near the fireplace, her face swollen and tearstained, while her hair had come undone from the confines of her cap. The queen clutched a crumpled letter in her hand, no doubt the source of her immense grief.
“Kate!” Henry exclaimed, rushing to her side. “Sweetheart, what is the matter? Tell me, I am in pain hearing you weeping like this!”
“News from Castile” Catherine manages to force the words out of her between hiccups and heavy breathing. “My nephew has written…”
Henry seizes the letter from her hand and begins to read it, as his wife seemed unable to finish the sentence at this time. After a few moments he puts it down. No wonder Catherine had collapsed upon reading the news. Henry wraps his arms around his queen and holds her tightly. “Oh Kate, oh my love. I am so terribly sorry for your loss.”
Queen Joanna the Mad died in February of 1522 in Tordesillas. The death of Charles and Eleanor been a crushing blow to her, even if she had not found out about it until 1519, as Archbishop Cisneros had been extremely stern in his orders to keep their demises from her. Joanna had suffered a stroke in 1520 as a result of her worsening condition and it had left her bedridden. King Ferdinand had ordered the removal of Catherine of Austria from their mother’s care after that and Joanna never recovered from that. Her mental state declined further and she slipped into catatonia for the last year. Ferdinand had always felt guilty about the confinement of his mother that his namesake grandfather had ordered, but as he were still young and under the influence of Cisneros for the first years under his reign, he had not done much to ease her condition. Suffering from a guilty conscience, Ferdinand ordered a royal funeral for Joanna and that she would be buried in Granada, next to her husband and parents in a beautiful sarcophagus.
Tomb of Joanna and Philip
The death of Joanna left Catherine the only child of Ferdinand and Isabella left. Of their five children, their youngest one was the only survivor after February of 1522. Juan had died in 1497, Isabella the year after, Maria in 1517 and now Joanna had passed away. Only Catherine remained, the last Trastamara infanta of Castile and Aragon.
Catherine of Austria also mourned her mother deeply, but she also delighted in being free from the gloomy darkness of Tordesillas and the raving queen. In 1520, she had joined the court at Segovia, just before the birth of her nephew. Catherine had carried baby Juan to the baptismal front and Isabella had taken it upon herself to set up her household in court and to finish her education. Catherine would be educated under the watchful eye of Leonor de Mascareñas after her arrival, while her brother and sister-in law considered her future seriously. Isabella were in favour of a match with her native Portugal, as her newly crowned brother John III had not yet married and it would tie Spain closer to their neighbour, while Ferdinand considered other options. But the truth favoured the queen more. There were few bachelors in the royal houses of Europe at this time. The kings of England, France, Hungary and Poland were both married, and so was the emperor and other rulers. Portugal remained the best option for Catherine at this time and it was a match favoured by many as it would bind the Hapsburgs and the Avis closer once more. Catherine seemed delighted at the prospect of becoming queen of Portugal, as it laid right next to Spain and she could see her family after her marriage as well. Thus, in spring of 1522 the negotiations between the two Iberian kingdoms begun for another match between their families. Isabella personally ensured that Catherine was taught Portuguese customs and the language from 1520 and onwards, and took charge of the negotiations as well, ensuring that both parties got a fair deal out of the agreement. In June the negotiations wrapped up and Catherine would indeed become the next Queen of Portugal. Her marriage by proxy took place in Medina del Campo in October and her departure was to take place sometime in the following year. Isabella ensured that her trousseau would reflect her standing as an Iberian queen and ordered jewellery and fine clothes for her, including books about the life of Saint Elizabeth of Portugal, an Aragonese infanta that had wedded into Portugal and were revered in the Iberian peninsula.
Like their grandparents, the court of Ferdinand and Isabella had no settled city. There were no capital in Castile during the first half of the 16th century, and the monarchs moved between cities several times during the year, often accompanied by long trains of acémilas that carried people and packs on their back. One of Ferdinand’s domestic priorities during his reign would become the implementations of a more functional road system, to make traveling easier for all. Isabella accompanied her husband at all time and she enjoyed the warm welcome the cities gave them, especially the love the queen received from so many. The birth of Prince Juan had certainly been greeted with universal cheers, as Spain had an heir that would be destined for the crowns of Spain and no far away empire. The cities of Seville, Granada, Segovia and Burgos found great favour for the royals in Castile, while Valencia, Zaragoza and Barcelona were their equivalences in Aragon and the castles saw frequent expansions and refurbishments by their new sovereigns.
Spain would not be the only kingdom celebrating in joy in 1522. France saw two royal births during the summer, one was another fille de France born to Queen Claude, named Madeleine and her cousin that arrived less than a month later, born to the Queen of Navarre: Jeanne d’Albret. The birth of a daughter delighted Francis, but not Henri of Navarre, who saw his infant’s gender as a disappointment. A son would have strengthened his hand in reclaiming Navarre from the Spanish, but little Jeanne was not of as much use to him. While Henri sulked, Marguerite was delighted by her baby. In a letter to her brother, she wrote this part:
“I shall see her wear a great crown one day” A few words that would prove prophetic for Jeanne’s future.
François of Valois, Dauphin of France as a child
The dauphin and dauphine had now reached the age of four and frequently played together in the gardens in the castles of the Loire Valley under the supervision of their governesses and friends. Margaret of Denmark had developed into a lively little girl, fond of puppies, music and apples, and she had started her education, mostly consisting of easy letters, light reading and prayers due to her young age. Queen Claude seemed very fond of her, as her eldest daughter, Louise, had died in 1518, but her second daughter Charlotte had become somewhat of a big sister to Margaret from 1520. In 1522 Charlotte became betrothed to Edward Tudor, Prince of Wales as Margaret was no longer available.
In Denmark things went far less smooth. King Christian had attempted to reclaim his throne against his uncle and to retake the Swedish crown as well. But it seemed like Frederick had allied with Sten Sture, now king in all but name of Sweden. Frederick did not have much aspiration to conquer Sweden and had unofficially recognised Sture as king in his own right. Sture’s position had been strengthened by the birth of a son in 1517, named for Erik the Holy, the 12th century saint king of Sweden. No add further insult to injury, the head of the former pro-Danish faction had changed sides, throwing his lot in with Sture. Gustav Trolle, the archbishop of Uppsala had previously been one of Christian’s strongest supporters and with him gone, the king of Denmark had been dealt a fatal blow.
In the summer Christian gathered a meagre force to reclaim his throne, but he suffered a huge defeat at the hands of Frederick’s own troops and had to flee to Norway, where he would attempt to regroup. The autumn showed no success in that endeavour and the snare tightened even more as winter approached, as the Norwegians did not like Christian much either. Sture strengthen his control in the mining area of Bergslagen and allied with the miners at the province of Dalarna, as the peasants swelled the ranks of his forces. In the late autumn, Sture became a father once more, as Kristina Gyllenstierna gave birth to a daughter, named Birgitta for Saint Bridget. The birth of two children to Sture, both named for the famous saints of Sweden solidified the little almost royal family of the nation that had nearly become independent at this point, but were not quite there yet.
In Italy the papacy saw a new pope being elected in 1522: Clement VII. As cousin of the late Leo X, Giulio de' Medici, were a clear choice to succeed him as head of Christendom, one that looked far more unstable than it had done in the past.
Author's Note: Sorry about the delays in updating my tls. I'm back to working full time and I'm in a writing slump as well. I hope you like this chapter atleast.
Henry could hear the sobbing all the way down the corridor. Anxiously, the king strode towards the chambers as fast as he could, while the whispering courtiers slunk out of his way. The king flung the door open and strode in to find a despairing scene taking place. Catherine had crumpled down on the floor near the fireplace, her face swollen and tearstained, while her hair had come undone from the confines of her cap. The queen clutched a crumpled letter in her hand, no doubt the source of her immense grief.
“Kate!” Henry exclaimed, rushing to her side. “Sweetheart, what is the matter? Tell me, I am in pain hearing you weeping like this!”
“News from Castile” Catherine manages to force the words out of her between hiccups and heavy breathing. “My nephew has written…”
Henry seizes the letter from her hand and begins to read it, as his wife seemed unable to finish the sentence at this time. After a few moments he puts it down. No wonder Catherine had collapsed upon reading the news. Henry wraps his arms around his queen and holds her tightly. “Oh Kate, oh my love. I am so terribly sorry for your loss.”
Queen Joanna the Mad died in February of 1522 in Tordesillas. The death of Charles and Eleanor been a crushing blow to her, even if she had not found out about it until 1519, as Archbishop Cisneros had been extremely stern in his orders to keep their demises from her. Joanna had suffered a stroke in 1520 as a result of her worsening condition and it had left her bedridden. King Ferdinand had ordered the removal of Catherine of Austria from their mother’s care after that and Joanna never recovered from that. Her mental state declined further and she slipped into catatonia for the last year. Ferdinand had always felt guilty about the confinement of his mother that his namesake grandfather had ordered, but as he were still young and under the influence of Cisneros for the first years under his reign, he had not done much to ease her condition. Suffering from a guilty conscience, Ferdinand ordered a royal funeral for Joanna and that she would be buried in Granada, next to her husband and parents in a beautiful sarcophagus.
Tomb of Joanna and Philip
The death of Joanna left Catherine the only child of Ferdinand and Isabella left. Of their five children, their youngest one was the only survivor after February of 1522. Juan had died in 1497, Isabella the year after, Maria in 1517 and now Joanna had passed away. Only Catherine remained, the last Trastamara infanta of Castile and Aragon.
Catherine of Austria also mourned her mother deeply, but she also delighted in being free from the gloomy darkness of Tordesillas and the raving queen. In 1520, she had joined the court at Segovia, just before the birth of her nephew. Catherine had carried baby Juan to the baptismal front and Isabella had taken it upon herself to set up her household in court and to finish her education. Catherine would be educated under the watchful eye of Leonor de Mascareñas after her arrival, while her brother and sister-in law considered her future seriously. Isabella were in favour of a match with her native Portugal, as her newly crowned brother John III had not yet married and it would tie Spain closer to their neighbour, while Ferdinand considered other options. But the truth favoured the queen more. There were few bachelors in the royal houses of Europe at this time. The kings of England, France, Hungary and Poland were both married, and so was the emperor and other rulers. Portugal remained the best option for Catherine at this time and it was a match favoured by many as it would bind the Hapsburgs and the Avis closer once more. Catherine seemed delighted at the prospect of becoming queen of Portugal, as it laid right next to Spain and she could see her family after her marriage as well. Thus, in spring of 1522 the negotiations between the two Iberian kingdoms begun for another match between their families. Isabella personally ensured that Catherine was taught Portuguese customs and the language from 1520 and onwards, and took charge of the negotiations as well, ensuring that both parties got a fair deal out of the agreement. In June the negotiations wrapped up and Catherine would indeed become the next Queen of Portugal. Her marriage by proxy took place in Medina del Campo in October and her departure was to take place sometime in the following year. Isabella ensured that her trousseau would reflect her standing as an Iberian queen and ordered jewellery and fine clothes for her, including books about the life of Saint Elizabeth of Portugal, an Aragonese infanta that had wedded into Portugal and were revered in the Iberian peninsula.
Like their grandparents, the court of Ferdinand and Isabella had no settled city. There were no capital in Castile during the first half of the 16th century, and the monarchs moved between cities several times during the year, often accompanied by long trains of acémilas that carried people and packs on their back. One of Ferdinand’s domestic priorities during his reign would become the implementations of a more functional road system, to make traveling easier for all. Isabella accompanied her husband at all time and she enjoyed the warm welcome the cities gave them, especially the love the queen received from so many. The birth of Prince Juan had certainly been greeted with universal cheers, as Spain had an heir that would be destined for the crowns of Spain and no far away empire. The cities of Seville, Granada, Segovia and Burgos found great favour for the royals in Castile, while Valencia, Zaragoza and Barcelona were their equivalences in Aragon and the castles saw frequent expansions and refurbishments by their new sovereigns.
Spain would not be the only kingdom celebrating in joy in 1522. France saw two royal births during the summer, one was another fille de France born to Queen Claude, named Madeleine and her cousin that arrived less than a month later, born to the Queen of Navarre: Jeanne d’Albret. The birth of a daughter delighted Francis, but not Henri of Navarre, who saw his infant’s gender as a disappointment. A son would have strengthened his hand in reclaiming Navarre from the Spanish, but little Jeanne was not of as much use to him. While Henri sulked, Marguerite was delighted by her baby. In a letter to her brother, she wrote this part:
“I shall see her wear a great crown one day” A few words that would prove prophetic for Jeanne’s future.
François of Valois, Dauphin of France as a child
The dauphin and dauphine had now reached the age of four and frequently played together in the gardens in the castles of the Loire Valley under the supervision of their governesses and friends. Margaret of Denmark had developed into a lively little girl, fond of puppies, music and apples, and she had started her education, mostly consisting of easy letters, light reading and prayers due to her young age. Queen Claude seemed very fond of her, as her eldest daughter, Louise, had died in 1518, but her second daughter Charlotte had become somewhat of a big sister to Margaret from 1520. In 1522 Charlotte became betrothed to Edward Tudor, Prince of Wales as Margaret was no longer available.
In Denmark things went far less smooth. King Christian had attempted to reclaim his throne against his uncle and to retake the Swedish crown as well. But it seemed like Frederick had allied with Sten Sture, now king in all but name of Sweden. Frederick did not have much aspiration to conquer Sweden and had unofficially recognised Sture as king in his own right. Sture’s position had been strengthened by the birth of a son in 1517, named for Erik the Holy, the 12th century saint king of Sweden. No add further insult to injury, the head of the former pro-Danish faction had changed sides, throwing his lot in with Sture. Gustav Trolle, the archbishop of Uppsala had previously been one of Christian’s strongest supporters and with him gone, the king of Denmark had been dealt a fatal blow.
In the summer Christian gathered a meagre force to reclaim his throne, but he suffered a huge defeat at the hands of Frederick’s own troops and had to flee to Norway, where he would attempt to regroup. The autumn showed no success in that endeavour and the snare tightened even more as winter approached, as the Norwegians did not like Christian much either. Sture strengthen his control in the mining area of Bergslagen and allied with the miners at the province of Dalarna, as the peasants swelled the ranks of his forces. In the late autumn, Sture became a father once more, as Kristina Gyllenstierna gave birth to a daughter, named Birgitta for Saint Bridget. The birth of two children to Sture, both named for the famous saints of Sweden solidified the little almost royal family of the nation that had nearly become independent at this point, but were not quite there yet.
In Italy the papacy saw a new pope being elected in 1522: Clement VII. As cousin of the late Leo X, Giulio de' Medici, were a clear choice to succeed him as head of Christendom, one that looked far more unstable than it had done in the past.
Author's Note: Sorry about the delays in updating my tls. I'm back to working full time and I'm in a writing slump as well. I hope you like this chapter atleast.
@BlueFlowwer Amazing chapter! RIP Juana.
Wish Catherine the best of luck with John III ! May their children have better luck this time around.
Hope spain retains navarre and naples.
Poor christian, at this point i'd settle for only norway for him
Wish Catherine the best of luck with John III ! May their children have better luck this time around.
Hope spain retains navarre and naples.
Poor christian, at this point i'd settle for only norway for him
Poor woman. Losing her two eldest as well did not help much. At least now she can rest in peace.
So do I! But one never knows.
I have left a clue about Navarre in this chapter and as for Naples I shall let you know in time.
He is getting his ass kicked pretty hard here.
I sincerely now hope that Naples will not be too devastated by the war, but I doubt that they will be able to maintain it, given that the Valois know that Spain cannot contain them alone, also because in Italy and in HRE they no longer have serious rivals capable of assisting Ferdinand in stopping them, so it is now only a question of how long they can resist the French avalanche
Hope that's a betrotal between jeanne and little juan.
I know you're a proud swedish girl, but at least norway!
true
Yep
True, still better the hasbsburgs than the valois!
Man, Charles VIII really screwed them over hard in 1494, didn't he?